Look! They are already after our Lester!
This is a discussion on Look! They are already after our Lester! within the False Allegations anti misandry forums, part of the Why We're Here category; This was in the Washington City Paper today: Article here: False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture Posted by Amanda Hess ...
- 17th-September-2009 #1
Look! They are already after our Lester!
This was in the Washington City Paper today:
Article here:
Here was my response:False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture
Posted by Amanda Hess on Sep. 17, 2009, at 2:36 pm
Last night, the Hofstra University freshman who had accused five men of gang-raping her recanted her statement. The 18-year-old student, who had told police that the men had lured her into a dorm bathroom, tied her up, and raped her, admitted to the Nassau County District Attorney’s office that the “incident” was, in fact, consensual. After being released from jail, where they had been held for nearly 24 hours, the four men cleared of the rape charges posed in a series of celebratory photographs, smiling, raising their hands in the air, and offering thumbs-up signs to the press. Overnight, the men turned from accused rapists to . . . four guys who had had consensual sex with a woman together.
It was an odd scene, if only because the implications of this situation are too thorny to be glossed over by a jubilant release story. Since the men were cleared of all charges, the public will likely never know what actually happened during this “incident,” why the woman reported it as a rape, and why she later took it back. For most bystanders, these details are unimportant. Whenever a high-profile rape accusation becomes public knowledge, commentators tend to gravitate to one side of the story, regardless of the outcome of the case. On one side are people who are concerned about the problem of rape. On the other, people who are concerned about the problem of false rape accusations. It shouldn’t have to be that way.
I can’t recall how many times I’ve seen a discussion of a rape accusation devolve into the one side arguing why the accuser should be believed, and the other side arguing that the accuser should be discredited. Another common point of argument I find frustrating—what percentage of rape claims are genuine, and what percentage are false? Most of the time, we, armchair rape analysts, launch into these arguments before we have any actual idea whether a particular person has raped another person. In most cases, we will never know. What we do know, all the time, is that rape is a problem, and false rape accusations are a problem. The meaningless squabbles between the two camps tend to overlook the fact that people concerned about rape and people concerned about fake rape accusations are both fighting against the same thing: rape culture.
Rape culture does not just encourage men to proceed after she says “no.” Rape culture does not simply teach men that a lack of physical resistance is an invitation. Rape culture does not only tell men to assert ownership over whichever female body they desire. Rape culture also tells women not to claim ownership over their own bodies. Rape culture also informs women that they should not desire sex. Rape culture also tells women that saying yes makes them bad women.
Both rape and rape accusations are products of the roles assigned by rape culture. In the traditional seduction scenario, a woman is expected to not desire to have sex, and to only submit after the man has successfully coerced her into submission. When the preferred model for consensual sex looks a hell of a lot like rape, an array of fucked-up scenarios are inevitable: the woman never wanted to fuck the guy, refuses to submit, and is raped; the woman submits to the man’s coercion in order to avoid other negative consequences (like being raped); the woman had desired the sex all along, but must defend her femininity by saying that she had been coerced into sex. Thankfully, a good deal of modern men and women reject these antiquated ideas, but they’re far from being banished from the sexual landscape. Especially when that landscape involves four men, one woman, and freshman year of college.
And yet, even the people who care most about false rape accusations seem to find ways to keep rape culture going strong. In his coverage of the case, Men’s News Daily editor Paul Elam writes:
In what has become a more or less common turn of events, the female Hofstra University student that accused five men, including one classmate, of gang raping her in a school dormitory bathroom has recanted the charges. That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.Elan admits that even if the woman hadn’t accused five men of raping her, she still would have “cheapened herself” by having sex with the men “willingly.” Meanwhile, the four released men in the case carry no such group-sex stigma when they pose triumphantly outside the jailhouse doors. In case you’re interested, it gets worse.
I would encorage everyone reading this to post their own comments there people like this need to be set straight!First of all: Great post Anon that pretty much sums up what I feel about the whole “Rape Culture” thing. It is nothing but a canard that justifies in people’s minds the arsenal of rape shield laws that put men, and yes I said MEN recursiveparadox, in a terrible state of vulnerability when it comes to our justice system. Why in God’s name do we have to instantly make public the names and faces of the accused of a abhorrent crime ruining their lives in the time it takes for a broadcast signal to bounce off of a satellite and into our homes and local bars across the entire country? Why?
I strongly believe that the accuser’s identity should be protected because of the particular nature of the alleged crime. I also strongly believe that the names of the accused should be kept under wraps for THE EXACT SAME REASON! It is because we don’t have this parity that witch hunts like the Duke Lacrosse case got out of control. Prosecutors smelling the blood of an opportunity to make a name for themselves and academics seeing another opportunity to clothe themselves in the sanctimonious cloak of false justice love this kind of stuff and it needs to change. And if you think that these two cases are rare you are dead wrong! For every one of these things that hits the national news there are scores of cases every day in which men loose their reputations, careers and families due to a false accusation. Now I wonder if someone could tell me who’s day it would ruin to extend anonymity to the accused until a conviction is made? Anybody?
A quote from the article:
“I can’t recall how many times I’ve seen a discussion of a rape accusation devolve into the one side arguing why the accuser should be believed, and the other side arguing that the accuser should be discredited. Another common point of argument I find frustrating—what percentage of rape claims are genuine, and what percentage are false? Most of the time, we, armchair rape analysts, launch into these arguments before we have any actual idea whether a particular person has raped another person. In most cases, we will never know. What we do know, all the time, is that rape is a problem, and false rape accusations are a problem. The meaningless squabbles between the two camps tend to overlook the fact that people concerned about rape and people concerned about fake rape accusations are both fighting against the same thing: rape culture……………Rape culture also informs women that they should not desire sex. Rape culture also tells women that saying yes makes them bad women.”
And another quote:
“After being released from jail, where they had been held for nearly 24 hours, the four men cleared of the rape charges posed in a series of celebratory photographs, smiling, raising their hands in the air, and offering thumbs-up signs to the press. Overnight, the men turned from accused rapists to . . . four guys who had had consensual sex with a woman together.”
How dare you Ms. Hess! In nearly the same breath you indict these innocent men of being mere pigs who bamboozled a young girl into having sex with all of them at the same time while saying that there is a “rape culture” out there that tells women that they are bad when they have sexual desires. HYPOCRITE!!!!
You assume that they were happy because they all gang banged a girl. How totaly calous and demeaning to these men! They were locked up in jail facing 20 years in jail and now that they are happy to be out they are a bunch of dogs for beeing happy about it? Seriously.
Now ask yourself what kind of culture we actually live in a “Rape Culture” or perhaps a “False Rape Culture.” An interesting and valid question given the events. But one that I am sure to be damned for asking.Do not ever suppose that a small group of people can never change the world. INDEED it is the only thing that ever has.
Anonymous.
- 17th-September-2009 # ADS
Advertisement Circuit advertisement- Member Since
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
- 17th-September-2009 #2
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
D-D-D-Done....
(awaiting authorisation)Disclaimer:The men's and fathers' movement needs to make sure it never sees females as the enemy,but only misandry--whether from females or from males.If not, we'll become like the bigoted feminists that this movement was formed to oppose.Glenn Sacks
http://antimisandry.com/109272-post69.html
Blog:
http://feck-blog.blogspot.com/
Fecks Warcraft File:
http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-ma...ile-16039.html
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
- 18th-September-2009 #3
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
I haven't read all of Paul's comment so cannot put this part in its proper context:
On the face of it, it is not an unreasonable statement, were it true, but from an Editor, without a balancing reference to the men involved cheapening themselves and their capacity for shame too - as they, just as clearly as she, can be seen that way - it is biased and offensive.That’s legal and media speak for admitting she cheapened herself by taking on five men willingly on a men’s room floor and lied about it later out of what little capacity for shame she had.
This was a tango for six, yet only one is criticised.
I replied in another thread here on this same issue:
Men take some reasonable pride in individual action. They take pride in their Integrity and Honour. None of these are evident in the behaviour of these five men.Five men and one woman? Consented sex ?
I have never been able to comprehend this sort of thing. Apprehend it, yes, as it seems to happen from time to time. But grasping it? Understanding it? It beats me.
Why would five men/boys want to all have one woman?
What possible erotic potential does it have?
What sort of people would revel in this sort of sexual activity?
I can understand the erotic potential of a threesome, which would be assymetric of course; or a foursome where there are two couples. I can even understand the erotic potential of a room full of writhing bodies. But there is something sinister and perverse about a large number of men and one women.
From her POV, I 'might' understand the erotic potential of so many ready and available men, just as I could see a chap revelling in having five naked women in his bedroom. But what can possibly motivate the five women with one man. What can possibly motivate five men with one woman?
Frankly, to me, it is a situation largely involving being demeaned. The four chaps watching one chap with a woman, what are they there for? To tell him what to do? To learn how to do it themselves? Are they scared of being naked with a woman by themselves? Are they waiting their turn to show off?
Where is the intimacy?
Maybe someone can explain this to me.
Perhaps anyone trying to educate me here might say whether they would join with four other men to have sex with one over-used woman.
As for Paul and his comments, that is for him to defend, and no doubt he will.
But I seem to recall that David Usher was driven off the MND pages very recently for making a statement which was deemed offensive in its bias. It was a simple statement that could not have been taken as offensive in any way by any reasonable person, unlike this statement which is clearly biased.
Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum
Love the Sinner but not the Sin.
(St. Augustine)
“ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. “
(and within ourselves)
(Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)
A Feminist is a human being who has lost her way and turned vicious.
If you meet one on the road as you Go your Own Way,
offer kindness but keep your sword drawn.
(Me)
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
I have watched many big gangbangs on the world wide wankfest that is the internet..
I watched a "competition" where 3 women took on as many men as possible..
they all did about 600 each, the winner did 621..
It seems to be some sort of an althletic competition that some women take part in..
And some men perhaps do this, well, because they are invited perhaps and "any hole is a goal.."
What is the world coming to eh?
Even the average woman is wondering whether or not she should be some sort of a porn star for a day it seems..
Then , they worry about their reputations the next day, when it was not quite as thrilling and super as they thought it would be..
As for the men..
I think men have been reduced to little more than dicks anyway...
They never had much "reputation" to worry about at the best of times..
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
"Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."-Albert Schweitzer
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
No, I find such stuff pretty boring.. The actual video was about 73 mins long, but it could well have been edited down from however long it took..
Lets face it that would be, like less than 10 seconds for each bloke..
The whole gangbang thing gets ridiculous when its over double figures really I think..
And even 10 is stretching it a bit..
If thats the right word to use!
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
There are women in the UK who tour all over the country taking on all comers in "dogging" exploits..
They try and round up 15 or so blokes to do them at a location..
"Rachel" I think is one of the best know uk "slutwives"..
She often complains on the dogging forums about blokes who dont turn up and let the effort down!!
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
"Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."-Albert Schweitzer
- 18th-September-2009 #9
-
-
- 18th-September-2009 #12
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
Sociopaths have no - or little - conscience. No 'sense of 'Guilt'. And no empathy.
But there are also people with no sense of shame and/or no sense of disgust.
Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum
Love the Sinner but not the Sin.
(St. Augustine)
“ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. “
(and within ourselves)
(Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)
A Feminist is a human being who has lost her way and turned vicious.
If you meet one on the road as you Go your Own Way,
offer kindness but keep your sword drawn.
(Me)
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
"Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."-Albert Schweitzer
-
-
Re: Look! They are already after our Lester!
"Civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in a number of individuals a new tone of mind, independent of the prevalent one among the crowds, and in opposition to it- a tone of mind which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in the end determine its character. Only an ethical movement can rescue us from barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals."
"Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace."-Albert Schweitzer




LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks








Reply With Quote







Bookmarks