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House of Lords false rape debate

This is a discussion on House of Lords false rape debate within the False Allegations forums, part of the News category; Below is a transcript of a debate in the House of Lords, which took place on 16th May 2006: Suicide: ...


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Old 2nd-August-2008
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House of Lords false rape debate

Below is a transcript of a debate in the House of Lords, which took place on 16th May 2006: Suicide: False Rape Allegations


Quote:
Lord Campbell-Savours (Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
asked Her Majesty's Government:
What assessment is being made of the incidence of suicide amongst men falsely accused of rape.
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, such cases are tragic but extremely rare. A recent analysis of reported rape cases indicated that approximately 3 per cent were false allegations, none of which went beyond the investigative stage. Deaths in prison custody are investigated by the Prison and Probation Ombudsman, including individual circumstances and contributory factors. During 2006, data will be collected for the first time on suicides of offenders under community supervision, including post-release.
Quote:
Lord Campbell-Savours (Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that suicide among men falsely accused of rape is some indicator of the scale of miscarriages of justice? Surely any review of rape law must take into account the number of occasions where women have withdrawn an allegation of rape after the accused has been sentenced. Should we not now have an audit of the incidence of false rape accusations?
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that the withdrawal of a rape allegation on the basis that it was falsely made initially is a matter of real importance. However it is very difficult to look at the scale of miscarriages of justice on the basis of those who commit suicide. The figure of 3 per cent relates to those who have withdrawn the allegation, as recent studies make clear. There is a lot of work for us to do. I certainly agree with my noble friend that the consultation is an opportunity for us to look at these issues much more closely.
Quote:
Lord Dholakia (Deputy Leader, House of Lords; Liberal Democrat) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, a little while ago there was a very critical report by the Police and Crown Prosecution Inspectorate about the prosecution and investigation of rape cases. Since then a rape action plan has been considered in terms of stocktaking. Can the Minister indicate why the success rate in convictions for rape is so low and whether there is any intention to measure the situation relating to people who are falsely accused of rape?
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, it would be right to say that the real issue is the under-reporting of rape. We know that a huge number of women are put off and frightened by the process of coming forward. We have taken that very seriously indeed and it is one of the reasons why the consultation is going to look at this matter more closely. But we have done a great deal to address this issue. We have introduced specialist rape prosecutors in every CPS area. We have overhauled the law, as noble Lords know, on sexual offences. We have created special measures to enable people to give evidence more easily. We have limited the circumstances in which the victim's previous sexual history is admissible in court and we have clarified and expanded the circumstances where evidence of the defendant's bad character is admissible. Now there is the issue of what amounts to consent and how we should deal with it. All those matters have to be looked at for us to get the best and fairest system, not only for the accused but for the victim.
Quote:
Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Other) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, is the anonymity of the accused as well as the accuser taken into account in this consultation?
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, it is. Noble Lords will know that the accused is not identified prior to charge. During the arrest period, anonymity is maintained. We have debated the whole question of whether anonymity should be continued throughout the trial on a number of occasions and noble Lords will know that all the reports we have had indicate that the current balance is the fairest one.
Quote:
Lord Campbell-Savours (Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, has my noble friend seen the research by a Dr Eugene J Kanin of Purdue University in the United States of America, whose paper False Rape Allegations found that 41 per cent of forcible rape allegations were false following admissions by the complainants when they were questioned? Is that not a startling figure and does it not suggest that the figure given by my noble friend of 3 per cent may well be a gross underestimation?
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, I have certainly heard of that research but I respectfully say to my noble friend that our own research—many noble Lords will have seen it—called A gap or a chasm? Attrition in reported rape cases, undertaken by Liz Kelly, Jo Lovett and Linda Regan, has looked at this very issue. They looked at the figures that were apparent in this country and, in examining those figures, they came up with 3 per cent They interrogated the cases that had been identified by the police as false allegations. I have to say, we still live in an environment where people are very sceptical about these allegations and are quite rigorous in the way in which they approach them before cases are brought forward. That is an issue which we have to look at, too.
Quote:
Lord Tebbit (Conservative) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to the victim and the accused. Would it not have been more even-handed to have referred to the accuser and the accused? Until the trial is complete and it is discovered whether the allegation is true or false, there is no victim, there is only an accuser.
Quote:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal (Minister of State (Criminal Justice and Offender Management), Home Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source
My Lords, of course I accept the noble Lord's nicety of language, but I have to tell him that there are many rape victims who never have the courage to come forward and who are never able to get the justice they need. They remain victims, irrespective of whether their perpetrator is or is not charged and properly convicted.


 
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Old 2nd-August-2008
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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

Translation: All men are rapists and a women would never lie about being raped!

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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

At least they are trying and it's more than I have expected in the past. That male-hating bitch is just another feminist trying to justify their doctrine..

This is more that I have come expect from that house so it's a positive that it was even raised..


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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

There we have it. Despite Lords Tebbitt and Campbell-Savours' efforts, Baroness Scotland of Arsehole just calls it a nicety of language and prefers her own employed Departmental feminist statisticoids.



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Old 3rd-August-2008
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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

An intersting and predictable (to us) exchange observed in the final three statements.

She referrs to victim and accused... he points it out... she changes subject immediately after a minor mention of agreement.








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So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.




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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

At least something is starting slowly to move.

There are plenty of complaints about false accusations against men in the UK, it's not only rape, but also sexual harassment, paternity fraud... and so on and the accuser, even with proven malicious intention, remains without punishment...

Men are getting more careful, when even just talking to a woman working in the same room....are refusing marriage more and more...where is no rape possible at all, there cannot be false rape allegations...


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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

See what they get to work with. Shame on the MRM. Sorry but this won't help the suicide I saw a decade ago.


 
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Re: House of Lords false rape debate

The debate in the Lords was over two years ago, and what has changed since? The blinkered feminists still cling to their biased and falsified pseudo-research.

I have looked at the report referred to in the debate, "A gap or a chasm? Attrition in reported rape cases" and find it to be absolutely typical of studies by feminists that assume what they set out to prove, and use every form of biased technique and manipulation of language to reach the conclusion they want.

The "attrition" they refer to is the way that complaints of rape fall by the wayside until the numbers of convictions is only a tiny fraction of the former. Their purpose is very clearly to obtain more convictions - not to see justice done. They assume every complaint of rape is true, and repeatedly refer to complainants as victims and the accused as perpetrators or rapists. They even include complaints made by men among the statistics, which miraculously then become factual rapes against women, conveniently swelling the number of the latter.

And of course they assiduously work to narrow down the definition of a false complaint to this 3% figure, which is entirely bogus even according to the statistics published elsewhere in their own report, which indicate much higher rates. They even bury false accusations among other parts of the "attrition" statistics.

I am not going to launch into a detailed critique of this report, far too long: but it rewards study as a prime example of unscientific femi-prop in action, masquerading as serious study while peddling its own agenda. And this stupid government actually commissioned the report from a bunch of established misandrists. What other conclusion would they expect? But this piece of toilet paper now forms the basis for Baroness Scotland of the Tunnel Vision to dismiss the incidence of male suicides caused by liars of her own sex. She clearly has her priorities staked out, and fairness, justice and compassion have no place among them.


 
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