Quote from KellyMac

Let's get one thing perfectly clear, pal, I never said I was happy the only thing he provides is cash. It breaks my heart he refuses to have anything to do with his own children. We don't even know where that asshole lives, but he knows where we live.

What I said was, if that is all he will provide, and that only because the state forces him to, I don't feel bad about it.

You don't know TMOTS, you don't know me, and you're speaking out of turn.

I guess you would like to keep him on the hook. Use the kids as tools to tug at his heartstrings (or wallet) whenever you wish. No? I don't know you but from what you have typed in this thread you sound like every ex I have ever met. Did you kick the father to the curb? If so then you don't get to whine because he isn't around.

His own children? Yeah, they are HIS when you want something or when you are shaming him but otherwise I have no doubt that they are YOUR children.

Yeah, most of us here (and you should know this KellyMac) have been down this fuckin road before.

What I said was, if that is all he will provide, and that only because the state forces him to, I don't feel bad about it.

This shit blows my fuckin mind. How would you feel if he used the state to rob you of your kids and your money and then said he didn't feel bad about it? How can anyone post this bullshit on an MRA site?

Quote from Garak

I guess you would like to keep him on the hook. Use the kids as tools to tug at his heartstrings (or wallet) whenever you wish.

You moron, he doesn't have anything to do with them because he doesn't want anything to do with them. He disappeared nearly two years ago and we haven't heard from him since. I had to get my son a prescription the other day, and they wanted the copy of his dad's insurance card. Had to tell them I had no way of knowing where he is or how to contact him. My daughter had to fill out medical paperwork and called me to get his birthday because she has no way of reaching him. Do you really need all the details? How much clearer do I have to be???

Quote from KellyMac

You moron, he doesn't have anything to do with them because he doesn't want anything to do with them. He disappeared nearly two years ago and we haven't heard from him since. I had to get my son a prescription the other day, and they wanted the copy of his dad's insurance card. Had to tell them I had no way of knowing where he is or how to contact him. My daughter had to fill out medical paperwork and called me to get his birthday because she has no way of reaching him. Do you really need all the details? How much clearer do I have to be???

You don't need to be any clearer. Any ex would say the same damn thing and she would leave out things that don't suit her. What's his side of the story? Maybe he avoids you because you want to rob him with the help of the daddy government!

BTW, calling people morons isn't the smartest way to debate.

I'm done debating my personal life in public. There is nothing I could possibly say or do to make you believe me.

Not that you're predictable or anything, but here's your next argument: "That's because I'm right".

If I were here to garner sympathy for myself, do you think I would devote so much time to men's issues? Why would I come to the least likely place to get it? How stupid do you think I am?

Quote from KellyMac

I'm done debating my personal life in public. There is nothing I could possibly say or do to make you believe me.

Not that you're predictable or anything, but here's your next argument: "That's because I'm right".

If I were here to garner sympathy for myself, do you think I would devote so much time to men's issues? Why would I come to the least likely place to get it? How stupid do you think I am?

I don't think you're stupid but I do think you are vindictive because you aren't getting what you have been told you are entitled to, his attention and his money until the kids are 18. I am sorry that the state/your friends/television told you that you are entitled to those things but you aren't. The state may rob him for you but they can't take all the money you may want and they can't make him your slave to be there at your call. The more money they take on your behalf, the more he is pushed away.

You need to understand that your story is the same old story we have all heard and sometimes we have heard that WE are the deadbeats in the story. No one cares to hear our side and in fact no one cares that we even have a side. We are just silent wage slaves to be used until we die. To be bashed while we smile and bear it. Did you, by chance, bash fathers on Fathers Day like so many other single mothers did? You know, if you did kick the father out of the family, then you don't get to complain that he isn't around anymore. I know women want to have their cake and eat it too (ie, kick the father to the curb but still have him there whenever they want him to be) but that is a terrible existence for men. Who cares about men though, right?

ie, kick the father to the curb but still have him there whenever they want him to be

at the same time, if you have children, you pretty much have to be there for them. Every child, I believe deserves both parents in their lives. Some of us don't have it that way and we come out fine anyway.

Quote from Haruhi Kenoko

at the same time, if you have children, you pretty much have to be there for them. Every child, I believe deserves both parents in their lives. Some of us don't have it that way and we come out fine anyway.

That's the trap that mothers use against fathers and fathers just have to be strong enough to say "No, I won't allow you to use me". This shaming BS mothers pull isn't for the benefit of the child, it's for the benefit of the mother. If the children were really the main concern then maybe she wouldn't have kicked daddy to the curb in the first fuckin place.

true. But, parents don't have to still be married to each other to take care of kids. If I am getting this wrong then I apologize. But I do agree that kids should not be used as pawns for a guilt trip and I see that happen oh too often.

Quote from Haruhi Kenoko

true. But, parents don't have to still be married to each other to take care of kids. If I am getting this wrong then I apologize. But I do agree that kids should not be used as pawns for a guilt trip and I see that happen oh too often.

They are used as pawns and that's because people believe that the children should always come first. That puts the custodial parent (usually the mother) in a real position of power over another adult. In fact, single motherhood offers her more control over her ex than she ever had when they were married.

The system is broken and men continuing to be slaves to women for 18 years will only make it worse. What if tomorrow the government just said "no more law enforced child alimony"? Would women start treating fathers with a little more respect knowing that the state no longer rewards them for kicking the father to the curb?

Garak, I think you're misunderstanding me. When I was talking about the only support he would provide being taken by the state, I wasn't talking about financial support. On reflection I can see why you would think I meant that. Most, if not all of the dads on the board would like to be in their kids' lives and are being manipulated by that for money in one way or another.

It would have been clearer to say that if he refuses to be there emotionally, physically, spiritually, or any other way, then I wasn't sorry the state was taking his money. Which, by the way, is less for two kids as it is for many of you for only one. You can believe me or not, but honestly, I've been giving my daughter her half since she was 17 as she was not living with me full time then, and I really do spend more on food for my son than I get for him.

No one told me I was entitled to anything. I never wanted his money. I don't need his money. I work two jobs, with one being the first third of the year. If it were alimony, I wouldn't take it. I don't want anything from him, but our kids are not at fault in any of this.

It's up to you to believe me or not. I know you've been hurt by at least one woman, or you wouldn't be here.

I'm sorry I called you a moron - I felt like I had already explained myself several times and it really seemed that people were deliberately misunderstanding me. That is very frustrating. So can we please get back to the debate and stop making this about me?

Quote from KellyMac

Garak, I think you're misunderstanding me. When I was talking about the only support he would provide being taken by the state, I wasn't talking about financial support. On reflection I can see why you would think I meant that. Most, if not all of the dads on the board would like to be in their kids' lives and are being manipulated by that for money in one way or another.

It would have been clearer to say that if he refuses to be there emotionally, physically, spiritually, or any other way, then I wasn't sorry the state was taking his money. Which, by the way, is less for two kids as it is for many of you for only one. You can believe me or not, but honestly, I've been giving my daughter her half since she was 17 as she was not living with me full time then, and I really do spend more on food for my son than I get for him.

I'm sorry I called you a moron - I felt like I had already explained myself several times and it really seemed that people were deliberately misunderstanding me. That is very frustrating. So can we please get back to the debate and stop making this about me?

Let me tell you Kelly, my ex told me that she doesn't trust me to father my daughter and she wouldn't send her to me unless she were dying and then only because she would have no other choice. Then she wonders why I don't call very often. Yet, to hear others (and her) tell the story, I am supposedly the one who wants nothing to do with my daughter because I don't call very often. The money though, oh you bet she wants that.


I have moved on though and have a new family with another mans son but I am happy. That apparently makes her jealous or something because she has commented a few times about it. Like I said, you kick a father to the curb you have no right to complain when he is gone.


So you know, your story is nothing out of the ordinary but I see it from the other side of the table. Now your story may be nothing like mine but my story never gets the kind of attention that angry single mothers get. You know the hate I get from my ex now is the same hate that she directed towards her ex when we were together and so the story goes.

Quote from Garak

Let me tell you Kelly, my ex told me that she doesn't trust me to father my daughter and she wouldn't send her to me unless she were dying and then only because she would have no other choice. Then she wonders why I don't call very often. Yet, to hear others (and her) tell the story, I am supposedly the one who wants nothing to do with my daughter because I don't call very often. The money though, oh you bet she wants that.


I have moved on though and have a new family with another mans son but I am happy. That apparently makes her jealous or something because she has commented a few times about it. Like I said, you kick a father to the curb you have no right to complain when he is gone.


So you know, your story is nothing out of the ordinary but I see it from the other side of the table. Now your story may be nothing like mine but my story never gets the kind of attention that angry single mothers get. You know the hate I get from my ex now is the same hate that she directed towards her ex when we were together and so the story goes.

I'm sorry that's been your experience, Garak.

It's the main reason I don't come around much any more. I've really tried to be supportive of you guys. I've spoken out for you, online and in real life. I think that I've earned your trust and respect. And when something bad happens to me, it's automatically discounted and I'm called a liar because I'm a woman. It hurts, but I understand where it's coming from.

Quote from KellyMac

I'm sorry that's been your experience, Garak.

It's the main reason I don't come around much any more. I've really tried to be supportive of you guys. I've spoken out for you, online and in real life. I think that I've earned your trust and respect. And when something bad happens to me, it's automatically discounted and I'm called a liar because I'm a woman. It hurts, but I understand where it's coming from.

That's the way all of society treat fathers. You come off sounding like every other vindictive single mother and how do you expect us to react? The rest of the internet would join you in bashing some man based on a one-sided story but you shouldn't expect that here.

You need to understand that as fathers we are told to go away and so after much pain, sometimes we do and then we get bashed for that as well. If we don't go away we are stalkers who are interfering with the mothers life. I am convinced that the whole idea behind getting fathers closer to their kids was to make it hurt worse when they were taken from us.

Oh gosh, .... where did things go wrong? How did we get from Kelly being a strong men's rights supporter to Garak having to challenge her?

I don't have control of this situation but I wonder whether perhaps there is a communication break down? I feel awful to say I have to take Garak's side here.