We've all heard the expression 'chivalry is dead'. Chivalry didn't just go and die on it's own. Feminism's done everything in it's power to destroy it. Many men see no reason to be chivalrous...after all, isn't that what women wanted? Complete and total equality? Despite having been dealt crippling blows, you'll still see men engaging in acts of chivalry. Regardless of their disillusionment with women, some men still end up being chivalrous. They might do it whilst sighing and rolling their eyes, wondering in the back of their minds why they're even bothering, but many still do it. Despite all the villifying and maligning, despite being insulted, belittled, mocked and scorned, many men will still go to the aid of a woman. Honestly, considering the entitlement attitude of many women....I have to shake my head in wonder.

I'm also amazed that so many women, having declared men unnecessary, having mocked and scorned them, having treated them like a dirt....would even think such a thing as chivalry might still be on the table. Why should a man feel the need to take care of, protect and defend someone who has blatantly said, "You are not needed."? I suppose chivalry would be an o.k. thing if a man were honored and respected. As it is......I hardly see why today's 'empowered woman' would expect such a thing from men.

It's not that I'm opposed to the concept of chivalry. The definition I attribute most to chivalry is that it is "based on brave, courteous and honourable behaviour". I think we should All act chivalrously as our abilities allow. While I might be of little use lifting something heavy or fixing a car, I would always try to help someone in need to the extent of my abilities. Chivalry, in my eyes, has more to do with what we expect from ourselves than what others expect of us. My husband is very chivalrous towards me. If we're out shopping and it's cold or raining, he drops me off at the front door so I don't have to walk and then parks the car and walks through the rain and cold himself. Now, I would never expect him to do such a thing, but I imagine that's part of the equation. Any act of charity, kindness or benevolence is damaged when it's expected, utterly destroyed when it's unappreciated.

As usual the key element that women miss is that these things have to go both ways. I imagine, if I never lifted a finger to do anything selfless for my husband, if I treated him like with the kind of exasperation and irritation that hallmarks many of today's marriages....he'd be a little less inclined to indulge in these displays of chivalry. We both act according to our abilities to take care of the other. If he knows I have to go somewhere early in the morning, he'll go out and shovel the driveway that night so that I don't have to worry about it, he makes sure he fills the cars up if he knows I'll be driving them so that I don't have to stop and get gas......All these little things that make me amazed at how wonderful he is. By the same token, I go out of my way to do little things I know make him happy, backrubs after work, taking care of things in the morning so he can sleep in, planning his favorite meals.....we act chivalrously towards each other.

As for the widely accepted definition of chivalry, i.e., a man protects and defers to women regardless of how they are treated by said women, that's just out of line with human nature. People need to feel respected and appreciated. People who are treated with scorn and contempt do not feel compelled to aid the person who belittles them. The idea that women are entitled to chivalrous behavior from men, for no other reason than by virtue of their gender is, quite frankly, ridiculous. By it's current and generally accepted definition, chivalry needed to die.

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This is a brilliant post - many thanks indeed, Kim. I wish I had time right now to reply in far more detail, but I just want to say this: I have taken women/feminism enthusiasts at their precise word and now treat them as they apparently as they claim they wish to be treated: as equals to men. So I treat them as such and I do not regard them as being in need of any kind of special treatment. I strive to treat both women and men in exactly the same way as far as normal civilised behaviour is concerned. In essence that means this: women cannot have it all ways. Chivalry is history - isn't that the strident women's movements wanted? Equal opportunities means equal treatment - there are no exceptions. I give no special favours to women. That is not what sexual equality is all about. What is good for the gander is good for the goose and vce versa.

I only wish that the legal system, the family and divorce courts and the child custody courts and the whole darned media thought the same way.

Far too many women (and mangina men) think that sexual equality does not extend to acceptance of responsibility and accountability - feminist thinking doesn't take that on board too well. No gender should claim the right to have a lovely big cake yet still eat it at the same time.

Shows the power of brainwashing of little boys and young men - it is like being kind to an alligator ! I mean the response ya get might not be what you'd expect on a more lucky day

Chivalry was a code between and about men, dating from around 950AD. Women were an ancilliary aspect; a very small part, largely concerned with their value in ransom. The code dealt with Rank and the treatment of men, one to another; men's expectations of men; men's conduct under specific circumstances, particularly in combat and combat practice; ransom; lineage; that sort of thing.

The French with their rather florid romance notions imbued Chivalry with notions of the treatment of women, particularly in wooing them. That was back around 1200 when Cretien de Troys, a Knight/Troubador was struck by the 'Matter of Britain' after visiting Mont San Michel and hearing old Celtic/Saxon stories. He was almost single-handedly the author of 'romantic chivalry'.

It didn't last long. Oct 1415 (I think) chivalry died in the mud at Agincourt (aptly named) when Henry 5 threw the book away and slaughtered 22000 frenchmen, the flower of France's aristocracy. He could not take prisoners with his small force (4000) so he had the captured killed.

The word died out almost completely for many hundreds of years. The Victorians barely mentioned it. It's recent revival by feminists was simply to drive nails into it.

What feminism wanted to get rid of was women's 'dependance' on men's good manners. Society depended on men's good manners. They convinced women to abuse men whenever men used good manners toward women.

MOST women, stupidly, went along with it.

Great post, Kim, especially this part:

Any act of charity, kindness or benevolence is damaged when it's expected (as in "you had better do it!"- Akuus), utterly destroyed when it's unappreciated.

As usual the key element that women miss is that these things have to go both ways. Kim

I used to be chivalrous towards women, but no more, unless it's my mother, sister, or a woman who has EARNED it. I no longer just give it away like I'm some cheap whore.

Orginally, I wanted to be chivalrous but was hesitant as I was afraid of how women (feminists) would take it. Then I decided I was going to be a gentleman even if women weren't ladies. Then I had a really horrible relationship in which it seemed that the nicer I was, the nastier she was. She presented herself as a traditional woman but did nothing traditional, at least not with pleasure, only begrudgingly. Now, if women want my respect, they have to earn it.

That's pretty much my development also. Many women today don't deserve chivalry as it's commonly understood, and don't appreciate it when offered.

Chivalry is the acknowledgment of women's weakness, and their need for assistance in public activities. At a deeper level it is the religious principle that the strong should help the weak, rather than exploiting them as in nature.

Ditto... for me too. Prior to marriage, it was all smiles & well wishes. Then we married, I met her so-called family (aka child abusers, mental torturers, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.) and it just got worse over time. No matter how easy going I was she'd find, either alone or with 'help' from adopted mommy, something new (or old) to complain about. and nag...and nag... and naaaag.

Now I don't have time for women who don't comprehend common decency.

How can you possibly respect the female mentality when so many, many women constantly come up with conflicting concepts?

I have hearddiscussions on BBC radio about so many gender specific topics and I once heard this gobby female take one almighty verbal swipe at this poor guy who referred to members of her gender as "ladies". Her response: "There you are - typical male sexism! We are not ladies - we are women!"

On another occasion another hapless male referred to more members of the female gender in some comment on the lines of: "I think those women should have been better advised" - or something like that. The snotty response from this particular female: "Don't you mean ladies? Have you no respect for women?"

Can a bloke ever, ever, ever win?

Best advice to any bloke: Give chivalry a wide berth guys - it's just not worth it any more. It belongs to the days of Sir Lancelot and Sir Galahad, or some fossilised old retired majors or colonels who belong to a long past age. It should RIP with the dodo.

Feminists pretend that they speak for all women. Obviously they do not represent traditionalists who prefer the old roles. It wouldn't be so bad if feminist women actually practised what they preach, ie. complete independence/autonomy without all the blaming of men for their problems.

Most contemporary women actually pick and choose from old and new, wanting the best of both feminism and pre-modern femininity. Women are pragmatic; they go with what works for them, regardless of its objective intelligibility.

Yep, quite so... I've often wondered what sense there is in proclaiming to be so independant while refusing to take any responsibility at all.

Exactly.

Modern day chivalry only compounds the entitlement concept. Why should a woman think she's entitled to special treatmen simply because she's female. We should all help those around us, regardless of their gender and regardless of ours. The concept that helping someone is a man's obligation and only when that someone's a woman doesn't even make sense.

Women thinking they are owed a certain level of conduct, regardless of their own conduct, is the result of feminism, not traditional codes of conduct. Even in days of yore, women were only treated like ladies if they behaved like ladies.