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  1. #1
    Richard's Avatar
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    Divorce court proceedings - advice needed

    In a coupe of weeks I have the next installment of my divorce/custody case which is entering its 5th year

    I do not feel I have had justice in any sense of the word, as the court fails to call my witnesses, my motions are ignored (like for an abduction report on my son – which I had to do private to show he has two scars to his face), and the court manipulates the protocol wholescale. For example, one witness – a doctor I exposed as having collaborated with the polish communist secret police and having tortured people, based on official state records, and the court ignored this totally.

    Meanwhile the court psychologist – who I have never met – declares that I have given my son a real gun to shoot in my flat and that I manipulate state institutions. Also, the psychiatrist declared that my wife was mentally sick only “once” (in 2002) – yet her medical records state that she suffers from sczoaffective disorder since at least 1992 – (clearly the court withheld the medical records from the court psychiatrist). In fact, the case is so controversial, it is under the supervision of the Justice Ministry, and twice I have tried to dismiss the judge.

    Lawyers come and go – I am on 4th one right now. I have for the second time motioned the court in writing that the next hearing - where the court psychologist will be cross-examined – be recorded on tape as I am sick of the manipulation. I have little doubt that the court will ignore this motion to record proceedings.

    So my question and request for advice is:

    1/Should I go to the next hearing, take part, and have the protocol manipulated and the judge rule that all my questions are irrelevant, and these questions are not entered into the protocol.

    OR


    2/Should I stand up and declare that this is a show trial, and refuse to participate until proceedings are recorded. If the judge refuses, remain in the court only as a witness and tell the judge my intention is to take this case to the EU court is Strasburg?

    I am frightend that if I refuse to participate it will count against me somewhere, but if I do, everything is manipulated.

    What should I do?

    PS I hasten to add that the case is in POLAND - but this is in the EU and I have little doubt that this case will end up in Strasburg.
    The greatest enemy of the truth is very often not the deliberate lie - but the persistent, persuasive and unrealistic myth that the lie creates

  2. #2
    KellyMac's Avatar
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    How do politics work in Poland? Can you get a lawmaker on your side? The media?

    I don't know about family law, but here in Oregon (US), all it takes is for a disgruntled constituent to complain, and the law I deal with (Fuels Tax) is getting tweaked once again to allow another exemption. Not the same thing, I know, but you have to think outside the box. Can you get your own expert witness? Has anyone demanded proof from their psych witness?

  3. #3
    Percy's Avatar
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    The difficulty in making any complaint is the lack of real evidence that the Judge refused this or that or over-rode your objections etc.

    To get proof you may need to record the procedings yourself.

    A pen in your jacket top pocket would hardly be out of place or even noticed, especially if you had two or three there and you used one to make notes with.

    But one could have a video and sound recorder in it.

    You can get such video pens, 'spy-pens' on the internet for $50 or less.

    With such evidence you could then go to your MP.

    You might need to check with your county's Laws. In Oz, the relevant Act is the Electronic Recording Act which prohibits recording secretly. But that only applies to recording others without their knowledge. It is to protect other people from having their private conversations 'evesdropped', especially by 'Authorities' who have to get a magistrate's approval. But, you are entitled to record yourself and your own conversations without informing whoever you are talking to (Section 43). You cannot use anything you record of what others say unless in a legal proceeding (section 45). Which is what you want to do anyway. You can show or say anything at all to your MP as that is covered by Parliamentary Privilege.
    Last edited by Percy; 7th-July-2011 at 05:24 PM.
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  4. #4
    Yan Yan's Avatar
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    We don't know how old your son is. If he's very young the court may override everything you do, in favour of the mother.

    Your story is very painful to read, but you should take Percy's advice and record every minor detail.

    Make an album, with dates, times, places and pictures. Even if the court will not listen and rejects your evidence, you will, one day in the future, when your son is a man, be able to present it to him and say, "This is what I did for the love of you".
    In the darkest moments, this will give you strength.

    Children are not stupid. They crave both a mother and a father. If either one is removed they want to know why. When they become adults they will demand retribution.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    Yan Yan and Percy's advice is most correct for fighting a court system. They need and crave evidence and it can also be used against them as well when well recorded and legally obtained.

    I must say that here is where you made some grave mistakes and you are now feeling the resentment of the court for this. Most probably they will still railroad. Here is why.

    and twice I have tried to dismiss the judge.

    Lawyers come and go – I am on 4th one right now.
    My ex tried this, three times. The third Judge actually seized my case. Meaning OUR case about our son cannot be heard by any other Judge until said Judge releases us. This played hugely in my favor. Note I am a father. A proven alcoholic. Rehabilitated but still PROVEN. SO I had two strikes against me, 1 a father, 2 an alcoholic.

    I also changed lawyers, but that was only after I obtained proof that my prior lawyer was actually having coffee and conspiring against me with her lawyer. I had heard they were exchanging my personal stuff between the two of them with cappuccino. I should have had her disbarred. I note here that my first lawyer was female. BIG, BIG mistake. The one I have now is male. I am much better off for that fact.

    You can't just change lawyers in a court case without this raising questions as to your credibility in the face of the Judge. Remember, these ppl are all in the same workplace day in and day out. They depend on each other for funding and prosperity. It does not bode well on you when you change lawyers at whim. They protect each other, the lawyers and the Judges. They are interdependent. You prevented a few lawyers from gaining further compensation, not matter the noble principles involved, the system will recover these moneys they feel are due to them. In the collective family court, etcetera.

    You screwed with them in a very innocuous (not likely to give offense or to arouse strong feelings or hostility : inoffensive) way, they will most certainly screw you in the most severe way. Be prepared.


    EDIT, I must also say, be non emotional, treat this as a business venture gone bad. When entering the court, leave all emotional garbage bags at the door. At this point, it is all business to the Justice system. You are but another dime to be had. Why would you be different?

    From Percy
    But that only applies to recording others without their knowledge.
    When in court, you are being recorded, hence it is smart to record them in case they lose your recording or steno. It is always a good thing to have proof of what was said.
    Last edited by nickb275; 7th-July-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    Take Percy's advice, record it yourself. Document everything in painful detail. Document the judge and courts manipulations. As for a justice ministry observer to be in the court.

    Stick with it and attend the hearings. The only thing on your side it time.....

  7. #7
    Richard's Avatar
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    Thanks for all your comments.

    NICK - yes you are right - I am at war with the judicary nd it could get very nasty, but the case stinks, but as a doctor, who collborated with the communist secret police to torture people, and the judge sidestepped this evidence, my hope is that at the EU court of Human Rights it will count for something.

    As for recording, even better, I took along a friend who is a fathers rights activist and a councillor in the local government so he was the way the judge acted.

    As for recording proceedings myself, all it will show is that the judge is constantly telling me that my questions are not relevant - I could just as easily put my questions in writing and ask for my questions are not relevant.

    As for the guns issues - the judge knows it was a set up and my contacts with my son are not affected - still have him every second weekend and every tuesday with me. In fact my son said that he was shooting a TOY gun - and this was recroded, while the court psychologist said it was a REAL gun. It was clearly an attempt to intimidate me - and as Nick says, shows how the players in the system work together.

    In my cooler moments I want to trip them up and thats easy, what is diffcult is getting the voice in court to do this - as I know the judge will block me, I am thinking of calling the judge a thief (50 pages of offical police notes have gone "missing", and the judge has not lifted a finger to find them) and then saying unless proceedings are recorded I will not take part in a show trial. The fact that after 5 years, despite a ruling from the Justice Minstry to call my wifes full medical recrods to for her to be sent to the court psychiartist, have not been fulfilled by the court, I could say, how long do I have to wait for justice at this rate? Thus I would force a verdict which I could appeal against.

    The question is, if I have refused to participate in a clearly biased trial, is evidence I have somehow, at the appeals stage also disregarded?
    The greatest enemy of the truth is very often not the deliberate lie - but the persistent, persuasive and unrealistic myth that the lie creates

  8. #8
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    Can't win any points in a game you didn't show up to!! But your playing two games at once. One fight at a time brother. That is my advice to you. DO you want to prove a point or have your son taken or with you. You seem to be at a crossroad here. Choose your battle.

    Come back and fight for another day. To many players on the field will get a penalty. Then the whole team pays. That includes your son!!!!!

  9. #9
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    "A good lawyer knows the rules, but the great lawyer knows the judge" -- a placard at a lawyer's office.

    Hi Richard,

    Do you remember "The Second Set of Books" as explained by the late Tomas James Ball? You are approaching the Family Court system as if they follow the "First Set of Books" of Law. As Nickb275 says, do just whatever is necessary to get the outcome you want and do not try to change the trillion/multi-billion pounds industry.

    Good luck,

    Daylight.

  10. #10
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    Re: Divorce court proceedigs advice needed

    Typically, it is best to go along with court proceedings and then fight against the decisions, than to 'ignore' the court. If you don't treat the court seriously, then you will find any later appeal against decisions made will be treated with contempt because "you had your chance to argue the matter in court and didn't take it."


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  11. #11
    Richard's Avatar
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    Re: Divorce court proceedings - advice needed

    Thanks Douglas, I was wondering that - I am terribly lost. I feel I am participating in a show trial and am so fed up after 5 years of it, I want to walk off and get to appeal ASAP, but if you say not to participate will be seen as bad in the appeals stage then I better fight.
    The greatest enemy of the truth is very often not the deliberate lie - but the persistent, persuasive and unrealistic myth that the lie creates

  12. #12
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    Re: Divorce court proceedings - advice needed

    Rich, you would be a great disservice if you backed down. Keep at it.

  13. #13
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    Re: Divorce court proceedings - advice needed

    Quote Quote from Richard View Post
    Thanks Douglas, I was wondering that - I am terribly lost. I feel I am participating in a show trial and am so fed up after 5 years of it, I want to walk off and get to appeal ASAP, but if you say not to participate will be seen as bad in the appeals stage then I better fight.
    I understand how you feel Richard. I've been there and, for me, court action stopped being sensible for exterior reasons (quite apart from the general slog over emotional matters that was wearing me down).

    If you are convinced that appeal court is where you need to be then think through how to get there. What basis will you need to be able to appeal (if right of appeal is not automatic; it isn't in the UK, you need a reason such as proving the law wasn't followed or that information is available that was not available at previous hearings). Think through how to present your case as best as you can, yet also with a mind to the reason for wanting to appeal. That might mean not holding any information back but at the same time emphasising things you know the lower court will incorrectly ignore or mistreat. It is important to know just what basis for appeal you will need and to have an outline of what you will be doing in appeal court.


 

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