Women promoted earlier

**pjanus** · 5th-September-2007

Women get promoted 5 years earlier, but this is not good enough. They must also be paid the same as the men who have more years service and had to wait 5 years longer for their promotion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879
Women bosses paid less than men but Harman vows to close gender gap

By STEVE DOUGHTY - More by this author » Last updated at 11:54am on 5th September 2007

Comments (2)

The survey found that females win promotion faster

The Government pledged today to press on with plans to reduce wage inequality between men and women, as new figures showed a widening gender pay gap among managers.
Minister for Women Harriet Harman said the pay gap between men and women is "unfair in principle" and prevents women from fulfilling their potential at work.
The report says women workers win promotion faster and reach the boardroom earlier. But they are still paid comparatively less than men.

The poll of more than 42,000 managers found that females tend to reach the first rung of the management ladder at 37, five years earlier than a man can expect to get there. And women who reach the boardroom do so on average at the age of 44 - four years younger than the average male director.
However, Jo Causon, director of marketing and corporate affairs at the The Chartered Management Institute, which conducted the research, said:
"Salary is an issue and the fact that the earnings growth is behind men for the first time in 11 years is worrying."

Authors of the Chartered Management Institute report said women are promoted more quickly because they are more driven than men.

They are also more likely than men to leave their jobs - partly because, the Institute said, they have a greater entrepreneurial spirit and are looking to find something better or start their own business.

Other analysts said the findings deeply undermine the theory that a "glass ceiling" keeps women in low and middle-ranking jobs.

Jill Kirby, of the Centre for Policy Studies think tank, said: "This is a clear demonstration that there is no prejudice against women at work."

Despite the quicker promotion prospects, the study, found that women's pay rises were on average less than men's.

But they were more likely than men to collect a bonus. The findings showed that a woman manager is likely to reach the level of team leader at age 37, compared with 42 for men.

Women become heads of department at a typical age of 40, compared with 43 for men.

And a female executive can expect to hit director level at 44, an age at which a man must wait a further four years before getting to the boardroom.

Of women managers, 7.8 per cent quit their jobs last year against 6.4 per cent of male executives. However, this was the closest gap between the sexes for 13 years.
The figures reflect the likelihood that women will give up work to have babies. But the closing gap appears to suggest that women are increasingly likely to go on with their jobs after having children.

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'Women getting to management faster than men' is just another example of the discrimination that exists towards men.

- Simon, York

In many instances it is a result of policies of positive discrimination that have, over the last decade, been pushed into organizations by any and all pressure groups and lobbying plus the insistence in some instances of women only selection processes. Companies and organizations have actually lost sight of the fundamental principle of selecting the best person for the job in their haste to implement women only selection processes.

- Ken, Suffolk, England

**Marx** · 5th-September-2007

It is staring her in the face, but still, she whines.

**bachelor tom** · 5th-September-2007

Authors of the Chartered Management Institute report said women are promoted more quickly because they are more driven than men.

They are also more likely than men to leave their jobs - partly because, the Institute said, they have a greater entrepreneurial spirit and are looking to find something better or start their own business.

Pure pandering.

**TheSharpenedPen** · 5th-September-2007

This woman is blatantly dishonest. Women entering the same jobs, doing the same work, and working the same hours make MORE than men. The number, strangely enough, is the number that women claim in discussions of their own so-called disadvantage -> men make 85% what women do working the same jobs, working the same hours, doing the same work.

When women make less, as most of us MRAs know, it is because of family life decisions(such as refusing to relocate), part-time work arrangements, and departures from the workplace to look after children, etc.

The very notion that women executives are making less than male executives, all things being equal, is decidedly ludicrous. What business would dare risk having its doors closed over an issue like this? Do they advise new employees that women managers will make $45,000 while male managers make $50,00 when conducting interviews? Do they advertise male and female wages for a variety of positions?

Let's say that a male manager, making $60,000 retires and a fast-tracked female is bumped up ahead of more qualified males to take the spot. Do you honestly believe that no one would know, and that she would never find out herself, that she was getting 5 or 10 thousand dollars less than the man was!?

Give me a break! Hell, give me a kitkat bar and a break!

What is telling though are the very clear, much less murky and twisted statistics, that men are moving up the corporate ladder at a much slower pace than their female corporate counterparts. Strangely, nothing is said about this phenomenon, because of course, when women take on these more lucrative positions, they suddenly pay less! Right...

Feminism is like a backed up toilet, and has just as much to offer up in any discussion of equality rights.

If feminists could be honest for a moment, they would admit that many qualified men are being turned over for positions that they deserve and in the name of equality, something should be done about this. But no, they insist on ignoring the real problem in order to address the fabricated one.

Way to go feminism! True crusader for equality rights for some!

**Male-Rights-Network** · 5th-September-2007

Kick those Labour Socialist shits out of Britain now!!

**jeremy ireland** · 6th-September-2007

I have a good personal example - I have 5 years experience in Marketing and sales, including in some big brand companies and a degree in Marketing

I am now working for a University. I had 2 years experience in the University environment (working not studying) administrating short courses.

I went for a job to work in marketing of short courses.

I got to the final interview, which was the only interview that the recruiting manager attended.

The recruiting manager was female.

The other candidate was female.

The other candidate had no experience of work AT ALL (save some temp work) and had a non-vocational degree in humanities.

She got the job.

I then was asked to use this department to add resources to marketing our short courses. I asked for advice and help with marketing and costs of marketing from this department.

I asked the person who got the job (believing at the time that she would at least be competent) if she had any ideas/experience of marketing courses she could offer.

Her answer 'you could write to some people you know'. I said that that was a) something we were already doing and b) only going to improve contact with people already sold, and that the purpose was to open up new markets. Her answer 'have you thought about e-mailing them instead, its cheaper'.

Needless to say we considered this department dead in the water - they didn't hit their targets, and they certainly didn't help us hit ours (as they were supposed to). Her salary was £6,000 more than mine!

Who did they replace her with when she left after 3 months? Another graduate with no marketing experience (female!)

sheesh!

**Dr David Banner** · 6th-September-2007

Jeremy that is something we see sadly jobs are no longer on merit.I honestly
gave up applying for jobs so much of this I have seen instead I am with great effort and frequent frustration, going the road of self employment.

Way back in 1986 I was applying for a job and outside I spoke to a young woman.
"I feel sorry for men" she said.Why I asked.She told me that in her experience men did not get jobs and that companies increasingly prefered women She mentioned that in her line men were definitely on the way out -1986
I tell you!
I see whole departments -and play "spot the bloke."
Men I see in Taxis, building sites, street sweepers, sewrers and others that come under dirty and dangerous, business and sales yes but by no means exclusively...Self employment seems the way to go.
I have met women who are competent and qualified - good at their jobs who tell you the same thing.Because merit and merit alone should decide who gets the job.

**MikeT** · 16th-September-2007

This might be a whole new thread in itself, but here we go.
One of the fire-fighters with me in the local fire brigade is a Registered male nurse.
When I first met him some years back, he was telling me about all the problems he had to get to where he is now.
No way in hell were his trainers going to let a trainee male nurse get ahead any quicker than what the female nurses had.
He was stalled in taking assessments and exams at most steps of the way, he had constant arguments with the staff nurse there over his wages not being paid properly, at one time 3 of the nurses in the ward refused to even speak to him, let alone train him.
Apparently it took him about 1/3 longer to get through his training than what an average nurse would, because of all the hold-ups.
He was telling me, while he was training, two female nurses that started amonth or two after he did, passed thier exams 6 months before he even got to apply for his final exams.
This guy is a brilliant nurse and a real bonus for us to have at Car Accidents/Medical assist calls.
Sorry, I hope I haven't hi-jacked this thread.

**Marx** · 16th-September-2007

Might be worth inviting him along

**TheSharpenedPen** · 16th-September-2007

Oh yes, men in nursing. The government did a study on that years ago and found that in fact, men working in nursing faced discrimination. Having found that discrimination existed against men in this field, the government thought it best to sit on its hands and hum the theme song to loveboat. Yes, that' right, SFA.

Funny how these things work out when it's a men's issue at stake.

**FFFF** · 16th-September-2007

Fuck the state.. dont pay tax!

**MikeT** · 18th-September-2007

Quote from Marx

Might be worth inviting him along

I'll have a go Karl, but he is a very reserved sort of a guy,even for a fireman, conditioning I guess.
Work with women all day in a place like that, you can see the effect on his face, he very rarely smiles.
Damn them nurses I say, they've stolen his soul!.
GRRRR

**Dr David Banner** · 18th-September-2007

I in my work still answer to female managers and all the offices I enter are entirely female so far. I keep it friendly but I get off side as quick as I can - based on numerous unpleasant experiences. I cannot help but be jumpy around them because I know in any disagreements who wins they have a screed in my staff "handbooks"about harrassment, leaving me a sitting duck.
I notice frantic obsessive health and safety checks and an ever lengthening rule book you would need to take three years of study to get through it all.

The quality of the actual work done is IMO and many outsider as-sub standard These seem to be at the top of the agenda of every aspect of work

Mike Thank God he got out of nursing and what a turnaround he can do real good for the fire service. Yes tell him he would be made welcome tell him we have a bloody good laugh sometimes too.