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  • Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    This is a discussion on Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination within the Discrimination & Sexist Double Standards forums, part of the General category; From 2003: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination A backroom civil servant who was ordered by his Government ...


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      #1  
    Old 5th-October-2008
    frostyboy's Avatar
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    Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    From 2003: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    Quote:
    A backroom civil servant who was ordered by his Government employers to wear a collar and tie to work was a victim of sexual discrimination, an industrial tribunal ruled yesterday.

    Matthew Thompson, 32, from Stockport, could from now on discard his tie, because women in the same JobCentre office were not subjected to the same rigorous dress codes, the panel said.

    While Mr Thompson, who chose to appear at the tribunal in a blue shirt and patterned tie, expressed delight, the trade union that represented him said it had another 40 men who wanted to discard their ties, awaiting hearings on the same issue.

    A spokesman for the Public and Commercial Services union said the decision in Mr Thompson's case was a "victory for common sense".

    He hoped that managers in the Department for Work and Pensions would negotiate a solution on the other cases. But a spokesman for the department said it was "very disappointed" and would appeal.

    Mr Thompson, an assistant administrator at the JobCentre in Stockport, who had no face-to-face contact with the public, refused to abide by dress codes introduced by his managers last June.

    He claimed that they were discriminatory; they created a situation where female staff were allowed to wear T-shirts, albeit only well-fitting ones, with no logos and only "tasteful embroidery", while men had to don a shirt and tie.

    He was disciplined several times and only agreed to wear a tie under protest. Finding for him, the tribunal in Manchester ruled that it was only because Mr Thompson was a man that he had been forced to wear a collar and tie.

    "If we were to turn the argument round and the only mandatory item of clothing had been for a woman to wear, say, a skirt, and she was disciplined for wearing some other item, would that be deemed discriminatory against her on the grounds of sex? We believe it would be," they said.

    They found that the requirement to wear a collar and tie was gender-based and there were no items of clothing that were imposed on women in the same office.

    The code, which aimed at encouraging staff to dress in a "professional and businesslike manner", read: "For men the basic standard is to wear a collar and tie; for women to dress appropriately and to a similar standard …Within these rules staff are free to decide what clothes to wear."

    At his hearing last month Mr Thompson said he did photocopying, filing and other administrative jobs. "I was angry that management had imposed the dress code without any consultation or notice," he said. "I felt it was discriminatory.

    "It was a specific requirement on men when there didn't seem to be an equivalent requirement for a woman."

    He claimed compensation for injury to his feelings after claiming that his human rights were breached. The Department for Work and Pensions last night stuck by its dress code. A spokesman maintained that dress standards were an important part of providing a professional service to the public.

    "We are going to ask our staff to continue to dress in a professional and businesslike way pending the appeal," said the official.

    Andrew James, from Thompsons solicitors, which took the case, said employers in the public and private sector should examine their policy in light of the case.

    "Any case which challenges stereotypical assumptions about what men and women should be doing is positive. Any major employer ought to be looking very carefully at its own dress code to ensure that it is not discriminatory and is not being applied in a discriminatory manner."




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      #2  
    Old 5th-October-2008
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    Re: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The article
    He claimed that they were discriminatory; they created a situation where female staff were allowed to wear T-shirts, albeit only well-fitting ones, with no logos and only "tasteful embroidery", while men had to don a shirt and tie.
    Yes, I've worked in places where male employees were forced into wearing ties, whilst female employees got away with smart/casual dress. There were actually men who got SACKED for several times not wearing ties, whilst women, all the while, were typically not dressed anywhere near as smartly as were the said men when without ties.

    Where I work now, I do not have to wear a tie, but do have to wear a shirt and trousers; as always, female employees get away with smart/casual dress. It's sickening.


     
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      #3  
    Old 6th-October-2008
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    Re: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    I would like to see the Gumnut Department that orders women to not show their bras or cleavage. Just think of the howls of protest.

    As it is at present, women flaunt their tits at every opportunity. It isn't that anyone can fail to notice that they have a female shape nor should woman have to disguise it but most insist on all sorts of ways to enhance it to the point - often - of sexual harassment. They wear thin, transparent blouses that show the pattern on their bras or it's different colour. Sometimes their outer clothes are so thin that they may as well not be wearing any at all. The very idea of 'under' wear has virtually gone by the board. Even their friggin' 'thongs' are flaunted.

    I am a chap and quite like to see women displaying themselves. But not every friggin' place; not on all occasions. Workplaces are places of work not displaygrounds.

    I can recall reprimanding an airwoman when I was a military officer for wearing a shirt (of standard material that one could not see through) but so 'tight' that the space between the buttons were pulled open. Her bra showed through. In other circumstances it would have been quite an attractive 'glimps'. I said to her quite loudly infront of the crew, "Just what the fuck do you think you are here for woman?". She 'offered' to go off duty to change into a less tight fitting shirt (time off?) but instead I ordered her to put her tunic jacket on a keep it buttoned up.

    Quote:
    But a spokesman for the department said it was "very disappointed" and would appeal.
    He is going to 'appeal' using YOUR friggin' tax money. I bet he'd think twice if it was his own.



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      #4  
    Old 6th-October-2008
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    Re: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    I voice this same complaint about the characters on the various Law and Order series: the male detectives wear suits and ties while the female detectives wear jeans and jerseys- often quite revealing jerseys. Feminists do NOT want equality, to state the obvious.



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      #5  
    Old 6th-October-2008
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    Re: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    I won this situation at work too. I worked for England's "Largest retailers of computers & peripherals" and my boss made all the blokes wear ties, while the women were given the option to wear a neckercheif thingy.

    Due to my complaint falling on deaf ears, I started 'forgetting' to wear my tie.

    A father of similar age to myself, who had been caught in the rough 'family' courts was sympathetic to my plight, and joined me... Wow, did our memories get bad real quick.

    Eventually, another manager took over the store (in conjunction with the previously mentioned one) and put the suggestion that it was unfair in such hot weathers to make anyone (not mentioning men as a sex) wear such attire.

    Yay. Victory for Karl.



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      #6  
    Old 6th-October-2008
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    Re: Telling men to wear ties is sex discrimination

    I like the rules in IRAN:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...546716,00.html

    1 -
    Women must be covered except their face and bare hands
    (this is the Islamic dress-code for women for Shia-Muslim-women except girls before entering puberty)

    This might be recommended for some US-girls too...

    2 -
    Men are NOT allowed to wear a necktie - all age, including small boys
    (contradict the nature of Iranian culture, banned as a sign of westernization)

    Instead of the necktie you should have a beard, which might be trimmed.

    ------------------------------------

    Neckties are a hassle - in our office, we men are supposed to wear a suit and a necktie (necktie not always, only when facing visitors, it's not really a strict rule) and women can use, whatever they like...

    I was astonished, when one of our staff was ordered to work in Iran, he was worried, but to our surprise, he was asking after 4 years to stay 4 years longer.

    He said, this is really a friendly workplace in Teheran. It was never like that before. No need to worry about clothings like business suit and necktie, nobody is really on time and to be late in office sometimes is no problem, Friday lunchtime all work finished and in afternoon all staff gone for praying and otherwise visiting friends at this occasion, no problem with women complaining or demanding anything - not only in the office but everywhere you go, cheap living, good food...

    He did not convert to Islam. Yes, he finished full 8 years in Teheran. I could not believe it.



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