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  1. #1
    frostyboy's Avatar
    frostyboy is offline Established Member
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    The National Union of Students on men's officers

    If you go to page nine of this PDF document produced by the National Union of Students, you'll find that it has the delightful (and not at all sinister) title of 'Winning the argument against men's representation'.

    This is the contents of that page:

    If we need a woman's officer, why don't we need a men's
    officer too?


    Some people complain that they think it is unequal to have a
    women’s officer and not a men’s officer. This argument is based
    on the misguided notion that equality means everyone having
    the same, and not everyone being able to achieve the same.
    The reason women’s officers exist is to fight for women to be
    given equal chances, and to put them on a par with the opportunities afforded to men. Therefore, having a men’s officer or a men’s campaign actually reinforces the advantage that men have, and makes it harder for the women’s campaign to succeed.

    Men are not discriminated against because they are men, so it is worth asking the question what exactly will a men's society do? Experience shows that 'men's groups', rather than existing to break down restrictive gender binaries and empower men to challenge their own normative perceptions of masculinity, actually devote time and resources to 'proving' thatfeminists peddle hate-filled misogynist rhetoric. For example, a Fathers For Justice campaigner who climbed on to Harriet Harman’s roof to protest her policies ‘towards fathers’ said:

    "The government is ignoring us and has a feminist agenda."

    Men committed to rethinking gender stereotypes, to empowering all humanity to fulfil itspotential, and to committing to bringing about full and genuine equality between the sexes would be misguided in thinking that a men's group could ever help to accomplish these aims. Such a demand denotes an utter lack of respect for, and understanding of, the women's movement.

    The NUS Liberation campaigns exist to represent and empower individuals who experience discrimination and disadvantage in terms of status and opportunity because they belong to, or are perceived as belonging to, a particular social group. Men are not discriminated against because they are men - therefore having a liberation officer to represent men is completely misguided.

    To summarise:

    • Having a men's officer doesn't make things 'equal'. Quite the contrary. Men's officers are really only about giving male students more advantage of women students than they already had
    • What would a men's officer or a men's campaign actually do? Men aren't discriminated against because they are men
    • Men who truly believe in gender equality do not believe that a men's group is a way to achieve these aims. Men who really care will get involved in helping out feminists at their institution

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  2. #2
    Nynrah Ghost's Avatar
    Nynrah Ghost is offline Established Member
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    This is actually insulting, to claim we must support feminism if we care a damn about 'equality'? We are not being discriminated against while everything in the world basicly points out that men have it worse than women in regards to discrimination?

    People who dare to make claims like these make my blood boil!

  3. #3
    nivek's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Its so full of childish shaming tactics, it laughable, i kept expecting to see tear stains on it.
    The person who wrote it has the mental age of a foetus.

  4. #4
    coffeecup248's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    'Winning the argument against men's representation'.
    That is outrageous.

    Men who really care will get involved in helping out feminists at their institution
    I dont think so.

    good day.

  5. #5
    Nynrah Ghost's Avatar
    Nynrah Ghost is offline Established Member
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Quote Quote from coffeecup248 View Post
    That is outrageous.
    Simply because it is one huge lie without any real arguments, it's just full of fallacies like 'there's no such thing as discrimination agaisnt men'.

  6. #6
    johnkimble1's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    That's one hell of a find. Excellent work.

    Would those men who aren't miscriminated against be the same ones who are significantly outnumbered by women in higher education, despite every IQ test showing far more men at the higher end of the scale than women.

    We really need to do something about this. The text is so dishonest, one must assume it would be illegal in some way. How could they possibly criticse F4J - easily the most important not to mention effective civil rights organisation of this century (or should that be this millennia)

    I suppose one lesson to learn from this is we need to be very precise in our language at all times. If F4J had criticised the government's GENDER feminist agenda, then there would be less room for them to deliberately misinterpret the words.

    Some people stil refuse to admit the term "feminist" has lost it's original meaning due to being hijacked by man haters, thus we need to use alternative unambiguous temrs for what we detest so strongly. I'd encourage everyone here to make a delibarate attempt to use more specific terms whenever possible.
    Last edited by johnkimble1; 23rd-November-2009 at 07:15 PM.

  7. #7
    johnkimble1's Avatar
    johnkimble1 is offline Established Member
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    "Men who really care will get involved in helping out feminists at their institution"

    So to achive equal rights you are supposed to support man haters - how exactly is that going to work?

    What next - should black people go and help out at the BNP and give them money to get rid of racism? Should the Jews go an help Hamas to make some more suicide bombs as a way of reducing terror attacks?

    Absolutely insane.

    Edit - another big point

    "actually devote time and resources to 'proving' thatfeminists peddle hate-filled misogynist rhetoric"

    THIS SENTENCE MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE THAN THE OTHERS.

    I mean we all go on about how no one uses the term misandry etc, but here they've use misogyist in it's place. They stating that feminists hate women! Such is their denial about discriminationand and hatred of men that they can't even come up with anything clsoe the the correct term even when discussing it!

    On top of that, what's worse - putting time into proving the above and shaming a few people for their extreme views, or instead putting time into demonising ALL men and taking taxpayer money to fund "research" in order to belittle the most marginalaised men in society? Even if their accusations were true (which they're not) then there still aren't any real victims of such activities - MRA are merely exposing man-haters or at worst adding to the debate. The activites gender feminists spend their time doing (not to mention taxpayer money) harm children, impact on victims of violence, help to kick men out of teaching and in the long term damage women too by giving them so many privileges they become far less employable.
    Last edited by johnkimble1; 23rd-November-2009 at 08:34 PM.

  8. #8
    6ame's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Side with feminists if we're interested in equality?
    Fuck that, I will spit in their fuckin' filthy pig faces, scum arseholes always try to insinuate that feminism is for equality, any intelligent person knows that's the last thing they want.
    Hugh & Mary Discuss Feminist Related Issues (ALL SUBTITLED): http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...0081D259987DCD

    My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/6oodfella

  9. #9
    Zuberi's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    The jack off who wrote that article is a liar and a troll!!

  10. #10
    johnkimble1's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Presumably said person is:

    Liv Bailey, the National Women’s Officer – olivia.bailey@nus.org.uk

    Please anyone contacting her remain civil and polite in your discussion. Obviously the booklet is hugely offensive, dishonest and inflammatory and warrants a robust response. However, we need to try to be the opposite of the gender feminists at all times and merely tackle their lies with the truth.

    The starting position of anyone's dialogue should of course to be to assume good faith - i.e. that the document is a huge mistake and perhaps written by someone who has now left etc. they may actually be some decent people there who very much regret that document or are unaware of it, or are misinformed on the issues and would be willing to remove all the offensive parts.

    One interesting point - they slate F4J as some terrible organisation, yet they're so "progessive" they dont; even want men to take the role of women's officers. lets compare and contrast to say F4J Canada, which is so sexist it is in fact headed by the quite excellent Chris Titus , a female!

  11. #11
    coffeecup248's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Quote Quote from johnkimble1 View Post
    Presumably said person is:

    Liv Bailey, the National Women’s Officer – olivia.bailey@nus.org.uk

    Please anyone contacting her remain civil and polite in your discussion. Obviously the booklet is hugely offensive, dishonest and inflammatory and warrants a robust response. However, we need to try to be the opposite of the gender feminists at all times and merely tackle their lies with the truth.

    The starting position of anyone's dialogue should of course to be to assume good faith - i.e. that the document is a huge mistake and perhaps written by someone who has now left etc. they may actually be some decent people there who very much regret that document or are unaware of it, or are misinformed on the issues and would be willing to remove all the offensive parts.

    One interesting point - they slate F4J as some terrible organisation, yet they're so "progessive" they dont; even want men to take the role of women's officers. lets compare and contrast to say F4J Canada, which is so sexist it is in fact headed by the quite excellent Chris Titus , a female!
    cant I just tell her to fuck off?

    no but seriously, why email her? it would be better to email the NUS directly and tell them what a disgrace this woman is.

    let them deal her.

    shes not going to listen.

  12. #12
    coffeecup248's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    *let them deal with her*

    (I cant edit my posts for some reason).

  13. #13
    johnkimble1's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    No, until we know for sure she hold's such heinous views and is so facist she objects to men's representation then you shouldn't do anything of the sort. Her name is on the document as a contact point - there is a slim chance it's on there without her knowledge and that someone else wrote all the offensive content.

    Alternatively she may well just be very badly informed and simply needs people to point out the vast array of false information on the publication.

    you have to give people a chance to put things right before you come down hard on them.

  14. #14
    Tyrael's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    To summarise:
    Having a men's officer doesn't make things 'equal'. Quite the contrary. Men's officers are really only about giving male students more advantage of women students than they already had
    These are unfounded, negative preconceptions about men. It's true equality to also have men's officers when there are already women's officers.

    What would a men's officer or a men's campaign actually do? Men aren't discriminated against because they are men
    In today's British and western society men ARE discriminated against, or get the short end of the stick, because they are men. As stated before, here's various examples:

    Father's Rights, lower healthcare funding for men's health, prostate/testicular cancer, domestic violence, false rape accusations, feminized education, Affirmative Action which discriminates against men, male depression, high suicide rate among men, most men do the dirtiest and most dangerous jobs, circumcision/genital mutilation, marriage/divorce, ridiculously high alimony and child support payments, lack of a ministry for men, parental alienation, less lifestyle opportunities, draft for the army, lower punishment for female criminals who do the same crime, how certain restaurants serve women first, airlines that don't allow men to sit next to children like British Airways, Qantas and Air New Zealand, majority of homeless are males, men pay majority of taxes yet benefit the least etc.

    Men who truly believe in gender equality do not believe that a men's group is a way to achieve these aims. Men who really care will get involved in helping out feminists at their institution
    Aha! This confirms earlier suspicions that the NUS is infested with feminism. It explains why they cannot acknowledge the existence of men's rights and only see women as victims.

    If you truly believe in gender equality then there must be a men's group, since a women's group already exists.

    This PDF document by the National Union of Students oozes with hypocrisy and double standards. It's like generic feminist speak. It's a shame the National Union of Students is so infected with feminism.

    If you check the http://www.nus.org.uk website you'll also see in the top right graphics to stop violence against women. They don't show support for male domestic violence victims.
    Last edited by Tyrael; 23rd-November-2009 at 10:34 PM.
    ~ Support Fathers & Families for Father's Rights and Equal Parenting! Go to fathersandfamilies.org ~

    ~ Fathers & FamiliesTM improves the lives of children and strengthens society by protecting the child’s right to the love and care of both parents after separation or divorce. ~

    ~ Feminism = Every bad thing any man has ever committed highlighted and exaggerated; every bit of good systematically undermined, vilified or ignored. ~

    ~ A man needs a woman like a lion needs a stove. ~

    ~ Women deserve only equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. ~

    ~ Men are not collectively "guilty" of anything. ~

    ~ Never needing to be pregnant is a blessing. ~

    ~ Feminist ideology “men have to respect women, but women have no reason to respect men” ~

    ~ Everybody makes choices, and nobody should be entitled to special treatment because of those choices.
    Equal results based on unequal treatment amounts to no kind of equality at all. ~

  15. #15
    coffeecup248's Avatar
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    Re: The National Union of Students on men's officers

    Quote Quote from johnkimble1 View Post
    No, until we know for sure she hold's such heinous views and is so facist she objects to men's representation then you shouldn't do anything of the sort.
    accountability John, her name is on the document, and for that reason she should be held responsible. If it is that she isnt the author, then its up to her what course of action she takes in regard to the true author.


 

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