For starters, let me say this intro is as honest and self-revealing a post as I've seen here, Kelly, and I praise you for it.

I'll try to do you the same honor in return.

Here you are on a men's website, both enduring and clearly enjoying what you find here. Maybe your search for male company will go better now, because you're dead on about online dating:

It's a meat market, or something even more cruel than that, a human shell game. I don't know if you ever read the terms and conditions on a dating site, but in my experience they, like doctors (whom I hold in a similar regard), excuse themselves in advance from ever really delivering anything. They spell out clearly that they are strictly providing entertainment, that they will create bogus personas and post false information for their own purposes, and that the consumer from whom they are neatly prepared to receive money has no right to expect anything at all from them in return.

The constant pattern I found was, that someone would "like" me or I would "like" them, the next level of contact would be made, and then


nothing.


These repeated black holes in the experience left me wondering:

- How many of the women never existed at all, other than someone's picture the site got hold of by who knows what means?

- How many ugly and even violent scenes occurred that I could never know about between an online seeker and a significant other who found them out at it?

- How much of what I read about women who are real, never knowing whether or not they are, is truthful even if she does exist?

- Where does all the information go, about people, and the racy, explicit, shocking, even bizarre things they say on profiles and chat streams?

- What kinds of data-mining and profiling, the real business of the internet at the end of the day, take place to create lists of potential sex offenders and social undesirables?

Hanging one's heart out in that kind of environment is just short of desperate to begin with, and when you begin to admit that to yourself, you begin to do the math on how many desperate people there might actually be, everywhere. Not just for companionship (looking for good times together then who knows?), but for financial relief (must have good job, no deadbeats, etc), or help with raising their kids (my children come first, are you that guy?), and on and on.

And, for us adults who have had our share of first encounters, trying to picture a desperate stranger emerging from cyberspace as a real live human being, as attractive, stable, decent and trustworthy enough to actually get undressed and do the deed with (or even be seen with), is a stretch at best. At worst, let's just say neither you nor I ever really wants to find that out.

If this goes well on your new thread, we can each, or all, bring out more of the personal and private stuff that goes into how we see getting older and contemplating solitude, which is what we're talking about, isn't it?

For now, I better stop, after the day I've had and the loss my family has suffered. But thanks again for bringing this thread to life, and good luck, and (my new greeting to folks I'm fond of),

Thanks for being.

I agree with Dinohip51.

The on-line dating thing is an act where the particpant's are the performer's.

Anyone can be anyone they want sitting behind a key board,some can be downright nasty yet they come off as an angel fallen' from heaven.

In my area I see profiles of women and guy's that I know personally and I can tell you that their over-inflated self image's of self-worth are exactly that.

I do like reading profiles for entertainment purposes because some of them are downright funny and amusing.

Mostly single mom's who don't ,"need" a daddy for their kid's but on the other hand this is exactly what they are looking for.(and a baby sitter)

I tell a few of them they should have just stayed with their ex's,at least they would be getting laid.

And some of them,both male and female are drugged up with some self inflated impression's of grandeur that turns people off before they even start.

Jesus,I even read a profile where one girl can't wait untill her kid's are old enough to get into daycare so she can 'look" for a job.

She still likes clubbing every week-end and wants a partner to party with.

Spam factory.

That's the label that was eluding me last night when I put in my previous post.

Though I try to fashion myself as a media analyst, my prime skills are in analyzing rhetoric, argumentative structure, and propaganda techniques. My actual working knowledge of the net itself is very limited.

But it doesn't take an MIT grad to see how the machine itself functions. In my experience, as soon as one clicks "Join Now", the advertising on one's web browser changes to content that responds to cues given in a profile and even keywords picked up from chats. Tell some one you like to dress in kinky lingerie, and see who starts sending you ads within minutes, for instance.

The evolving design of the internet is as a sort of digital psychic, scanning all human input for cues and clues on what we might be missing, seeking or obsessing about, and customizing the commercial message to lead us in the direction of our own confessions.

And lonely, desperate people with credit cards are the dream target market.

Is the idea of finding someone by this means to share life with, or even someone to give a cell number to, something a stable and confident adult truly wants to subject oneself to?

And, it seems many of the sites are linked to each other as well. Join one and many others start making you promises and baiting you with your own stated preferences. Unsubscribe from one, and the others are pestering you to try what looks like the same service by another label. Many won't even let you back-button or X out of a page without popping up series of "Wait! before you go!" revisions of their offerings.

Obviously this works or they wouldn't be doing it.

The question is, whoever these people are, do you really want any part of your future, or anything private about you, in their databases?

All you have to put for a headline if your a man in your profile is;

Looking for responsible,accountable partner.

You will never get a date.

Quote from outdoors

All you have to put for a headline if your a man in your profile is;

Looking for responsible,accountable partner.

You will never get a date.

Outdoors, I really find your cues and revelations appealing. When you're not online beating up on feminist agitators,

Wanna get a drink sometime?

TO-tally kidding, but to make a point.

There is also a link between gender war and online dating when it comes to what one reveals about oneself.

Recently, I joined "combateurocentricpatriarchy" looking to do a little agitating myself.

What I found, not even trying to conceal itself as such,

was an online dating site.

It depends on the people using it. Though most of them are probably using it for sex hookups and nothing more.

Honestly to have success online or offline finding someone to spend time with is hardest when you are lonely. Its the paradox that drives people crazy when they are in a lonely state in their life. If you want to date, you need to get to a place where you aren't lonely. When my wife left, and I moved to a new place to be closer to my kids, I was lonely. Never having been a big bar scene guy, I tried it out. I found some peace their. My loneliness became obvious to me, but so did the fact that I was not alone. I met people there, and had some really good times talking to people. I don't think you need to go to a bar for that, but find some place where you, with your personality, can meet people with no agenda. For me, at that time, it was a couple dive bars where people seemed to come with no pretense. For others it could be church or a professional group. When you no longer feel lonely, then you are in a good position to decide whether you want to date or not, and with whom you would like to date.

Quote from HeligKo

Honestly to have success online or offline finding someone to spend time with is hardest when you are lonely. Its the paradox that drives people crazy when they are in a lonely state in their life. If you want to date, you need to get to a place where you aren't lonely. When my wife left, and I moved to a new place to be closer to my kids, I was lonely. Never having been a big bar scene guy, I tried it out. I found some peace their. My loneliness became obvious to me, but so did the fact that I was not alone. I met people there, and had some really good times talking to people. I don't think you need to go to a bar for that, but find some place where you, with your personality, can meet people with no agenda. For me, at that time, it was a couple dive bars where people seemed to come with no pretense. For others it could be church or a professional group. When you no longer feel lonely, then you are in a good position to decide whether you want to date or not, and with whom you would like to date.

As with all pursuits of emotional comfort, clarity of objectives is paramount.

Who and what does that "special someone" really need to be for you?

As Floaty points out, the hookup model is probably what the sites are mostly built around. If that's for you, then just proceed wisely. You're a grown woman, so no advice needed there.

But something more, a trusted friend in or out of bed, maybe not even sexual at all, and male? Good luck with that one.

And even more unlikely, that lifelong quest for "the right one" being fulfilled by this means? I've heard of it, but...

I think you've made a good start right here among the sociopaths and the agitators, Kel. Wouldn't wanna lose ya to a "BF"...

haha! Don't ask me what I think of internet dating!

You might just get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth..

Which is precisely what you WONT get from most online dating profiles and folks on there!

Women lie because they are generally stupid, and don't want to appear as cheap and grotty as they really are..

Men lie, because they damned well HAVE to!!

I have developed a knack over the years of perfecting the art blitzing the haddock..

I generally reckon it takes a total of 4 or 5 hours of intensive grind to get to that holy ground..

No date, just pop round to her place at midnight and have her waiting nix off ready for action..

They don't seem to even care that I am clearly not remotely sane..

In fact, I think they prefer it that way..

Of course, I never see them again.. haha!!

No charges have been pressed yet..

I could tell you some tales that would make you feel, very, very ill..

Women are putting themselves (and their kids) at some great risks..

It ruins women if they stay long on those sites..

I have noted how over the years, the "game" has changed.. It has become, quite sick, really, depressed and unhappy women.. Men who are shallow bullshitters..

And of course, rakes like myself..

Just withdrawn from a lovely melon breasted young lady in her 20's, she hadnt been proddded for 3 years..

I know the ones to pick!

Online predator or what?

hehe!!

You either have the skills, or you dont!!

(I get banned from dating sites even more than I get banned from ... everywhere else!)..

The "dartboard theory" of life works well..

Anyone wanting dating success (pussy by midnight) I reckon I could gaurantee it if they gave me access to thier profile, put a pic of ME (or any other handsome chappy) up.. And allowed me to rip through the sad slappers and innocent victims..

Ive had some real lovely ones recently..

Reckon I have probably another 5 kids on the way too judging by the fact that they seem to love full on impregnation from total looney strangers..

Online dating, is so sick..

It should be banned!

Added after 11 minutes:

Its always good to pick up some street meat on the way back.. Most women on dating sites are so bad at sex that they cant take a full session, so for the last few salvo's come back down to earth with a professional woman who knows her trade.. Pay something back to womankind!

Its good to get 4 or 5 regulars on the rack, and now and then rip round them all in one night, a gent can easily blow 20 plus loads if you get some aerobic sex dolls on the fish rack who can take some serious poundings..

Its good for your mental health too..

Until you pass out in a hallucinatory stupor and wake up in the hospital with a rather stern looking nurse approaching with the usual anti-psychotic medication..

It is, physically impossible to overdose on sex or orgasms, when you have had enough, you simply pass out unconscious after a few days with no lasting ill effects..

Added after 11 minutes:

Another good sport to try on dating sites is the "decathalon"..

Basically, you do a grand tour of your area, (try and keep it in a 30 mile radius or the driving will be too much), plonking 10 FRESH haddocks, first meet, in 24 hours..

Its not as impossible as it seems, because you can "prime" them before hand, which may take the whole week, but you need to be on at all times, (especially over night,).. Also, because the women are usual DESSSPERATE!!! and rubbish at sex, its easy to do the whole meet with each one in little over an hour..

Its all about "victim selection" really, and of course, practice at the art of haddock blitzing.. You soon get into the swing of it..

And you dont even need to be a "superstud" type..

Believe it or not, even the average gent can easily hoist it 10 times in a day when your are on a burn and dont have to waste time with the dating crap.. Straight round to their place, or in a car park, whatever.. Swifties!!

Just been informed by a member that my irreverent take on wankernet dating may be offensive to the OP.. This was of course not my intention, apologies if offence was caused.. I just noted a request for views on the online cattle market and weighed in as I would..

Of course, some dating sitesters are "genuine" and "serious" but I have to say, they are dwarfed by the hordes of plebsterians, tosspots, clueless fantasists and generally urine extractors..

Especially on the freeby troutfests like "plenty of bloaters"..

Just don't expect to find anyone who looks like their pic.. Which at best, is them at their best.. many years ago and in a good light..

They are usually 30lbs heavier, quite a bit shorter, and those that have their goodies on display, are usually the ones who squeal "i dont want sex"..

And the reality is.. The more popular a site is (high numbers) the more likely it is because they are on for ages because they cant find anyone anyway!

A GOOD dating site, would surely have few members, because they all meet the perfect match soon and leave?

One of the things that makes Plenty Of Landwhales a "success" is that they offer great advice on how to lie in your profile.. Therefore ensuring you have lots of dates.. and lots of opportunities to have more because no one ever recognises you as the same person that is in the profile so doesnt date you again!

Best advice from me is, don't go on for more than a week at a time, it will break your faith in human nature and dating within days! You will need many months to recover!

I think the whole concept of it is very poorly understood, online dating tries to work under "traditional" assumptions about what dating is.. But it is unreal in the online conception of it because one can easily get to know more before you ever meet someone than you would normally find out in months of "face to face" (Or groin to groin) dating..

Effectively, you have already had "four dates" before you even meet! (sometimes, many more!)..

And when you do meet..

ARGH!!!!

Remember the great salesmans top advice though..

Bizinformer - Don't Risk The Sale By Talking After The Close - Business Information, sme Advice, Marketing Small Business, small business news, small business development, small business opportunity, small business opportunities

Once you have all the data you need to "close", go for the kill and dont yap anymore..

Chances are you will do what many do..

"Talk yourself out of a shag"..

(Simply going on a traditional "date" always has this effect on me every time!)

My top closing tactic?

Whip out the Captains Log..

They are gagging for it!

LOL don't worry, FB, I would have been surprised if you had answered differently. ;P

The thing is, I've only been with two men in my life, and the first one wasn't exactly consensual. I don't think I will ever be a person who has casual sex.

My main problem is I'm almost pathologically shy and struggle a bit with self esteem (although that part has gotten way better). I do have friends, I do go places, but as far as giving a "signal" that I'm interested, I wouldn't know where to start. I tend to talk myself out of it. I don't care how attractive he is. In fact, the more attractive, the harder it is.

Aye.. there is a good reason why so many PUA's (pick up artists) refer to their sport as "Game"..

It truly is a "game" and worst of all, there are no rules really, and even when folk pretend or assume their are, so many people "cheat" and lie that it becomes.. Part of the game..

Dont play it.. And you wont lose much!

Pat and I are both pretty disappointed with the whole experience.

My experience is the men either ignore me after messaging or they have a hostile attitude or they're asking me out for a drink when we've barely started a conversation. I don't know if these are honest or even safe people.

Pat's experience is the women either don't respond or they'll suddenly stop responding with no reason given. We've asked each other what we're doing wrong, but I think it isn't us.

And the thing is, we're both honest, really decent people. Our profiles are pretty accurate, we have current pictures up. I know it really shouldn't surprise me still, but it never ceases to amaze and disappoint me when people misrepresent themselves.

Like I said, Pat is one of my two best friends, and I would date him in a heartbeat, but we've talked about it and he said it would be like kissing his sister

That's ok. The friendship is far more important to me. He and my other best friend, Linda, were there for me every day through the hell of my divorce, the fallout from that, when my son had two nervous breakdowns and wound up in special ed because of it, and the hard work we did over a three year period to get him back mainstreamed. They have helped me let go of my guilt over the damage that staying in that marriage so long did to both of our children, and helped me to try to undo some of it. And they helped me grown a backbone.

And I've been there for them as well, and the healthier I get mentally and emotionally, the more I'm able to be.

Plus he hasn't been divorced very long. Personally I think he needs to get comfortable being on his own before he should date, but that's up to him.

Thanks for the input. I guess I'm just going to have to buck it up and take some chances. Life is truly a growth experience.

Quote from KellyMac

LOL don't worry, FB, I would have been surprised if you had answered differently. ;P

The thing is, I've only been with two men in my life, and the first one wasn't exactly consensual. I don't think I will ever be a person who has casual sex.

My main problem is I'm almost pathologically shy and struggle a bit with self esteem (although that part has gotten way better). I do have friends, I do go places, but as far as giving a "signal" that I'm interested, I wouldn't know where to start. I tend to talk myself out of it. I don't care how attractive he is. In fact, the more attractive, the harder it is.

Have you ever had a male friend you could just hang out with? It can be a lot of fun when a man and woman really can relax and just enjoy each other's company, though few have the discipline or the personal focus on their actual needs to pull it off.

One thing I really miss about living around a college town (married and faithful the entire time) was that there was no shortage of women to make friends with, especially in a couple of workplaces. Most of them were basically feminist-oriented I suppose, but more of a kind of hip college feminism than seriously political or man-hating about it.

Gals like that were just fascinated by the idea that a man could enjoy their company and not be trying to get their pants down. As I found their orientations and assumptions about gender kinda icky anyway, they never knew how immune I was to them sexually, and I got this sort of "noble husband" persona going on that a lot of gals found really likable.

If I'd ever let on how desolate my marriage really was (and most of them knew and liked my ex) I wonder if more of them would have played the "forbidden fruit" angle, but for me it was as much an exercise in personal honor to be faithful to the marriage as anything else. Being faithful to my wife had nothing to do with it.

Something about bringing a combination of integrity and unavailability on the scene seemed to make me almost irresistible in a "safe" way. I've no doubt I was the topic of much gossip and speculation among the gals. It was fun. Screwing one of them would have ruined the whole thing, and to this day it is a clean and honest memory, of making the best of my manhood among women without compromising my values.

Not sure why I'm going into all this, other than to tell you, change the model to one that honors you, instead of dreading how you'll "perform" in this vicious sexual minefield when all you want is not to be alone. There is nothing lonelier than a player without a date/fix, and I don't see you as the type to degrade yourself that way.

And, the best sex I ever had was with a woman I still co-parent with ten years since meeting her (my God, eleven, like tomorrow...) and we haven't done it with each other or anyone else in a year or more. We were both talking today about how good it is to have gone all the way through an indescribably satisfying experience together, and just be past the need for it. Our little girl is a true love child, and we all treat each other as family, making no claims on each other besides what is offered. The mom is the best friend I ever had, and incidentally we waited quite some time at the beginning too back then.

Actually, my experience with online dating was as much her idea as mine, as she was worried I'd be frustrated. Didn't turn up anything as it worked out, and frankly, when it was as good as it used to be and then I look at my daughter who came from that, having sex has lost a lot of its urgent appeal.

(Not that I wouldn't give it a go with someone I liked, though. I may be noble, but I'm not dead...)