THough I'd give a view differing from the stuff Rob posts...

"In reality there was an Illuminati. It’s goals were far more modest that the deluded fantasies of Welch and it’s other critics. The Illuminati was founded in Bavaria during a very conservative era. It was not a good time to oppose the State or the Church and most classical liberals would oppose both. The Illuminati was the good guys. They would trying to expand intellectual and political freedom against a regime that was run by the landed aristocracy and the church.

Thomas Jefferson basically praised the goals of the Illuminati and said it operated as secret society because it was forced to do so by the regime it opposed. The conservative forces, of course, were against the classical liberal revolution and the Illuminati in Germany was basically destroyed by the state. But it lived on in the fevered imagination of crazed conservatives ever since. Jefferson’s kind words for an organization that was promoting the same liberal goals as the American Revolution was cited as proof that he was the head of this “Satanist” plot in America.

Various writers for the next couple of hundred years imagined the Illuminati being involved in anything they didn’t like. For some the “international bankers” were the plot and the Illuminati controlled them. Some said it was the Jews and that the Illuminati was the cabal at the very top. Catholic conspiracy mongers like to see the Illuminati running the Masons and Protestantism. Fundamentalist nutters saw the Illuminati controlling the Catholic Church. Over the years there is nary a wacko plot that has been invented that wasn’t then put under the alleged control of this defunct organization.

Robert Welch, the founder of the Birch Society, took this stuff about as far as you good. For him all the various conspiracies existed but were controlled by the “Insiders” by whom he meant the Illuminati. Many of the top Birchers were convinced the Insiders were really all Jews and that Jews were the plotters behind all the world’s troubles. Welch preferred to keep that sort of thing under the table. But prominent Birchers frequently went off into the anti-Semitic land of neo-Nazism. Many a JBS chapter ended their official meetings with unofficial discussions where anti-Semitic tracts came out of hiding and were discussed but never “officially” lest the JBS be tarnished.

The Birchers were against the Civil Rights movement for equality of black Americans. Today they are leading the charge against Hispanics and homosexuals. They are still pushing their wacko conspiracy theories and it is from them that Paul got his bizarre material on NAFTA and the alleged “North American Union”. The Birch Society is for the war on drugs, for censorship and wants abortion banned. They are not advocates of separation of church and state across the board.

If a libertarian is broadly defined and socially liberal and economically conservative they are NOT libertarians. They hold Ron Paul’s views which were conservative and, at best, merely wanted the social control run on the state level. They don’t oppose state control they just want a different level of government doing the controlling. A libertarian opposes the control full stop. Simple lesson but a lot of alleged libertarians don’t get it.

Now Ron Paul has basically come out of the closet and publicly endorsed the John Birch Society. Paul called them “a great patriotic organization” and wished “them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts.” Their efforts are supposedly for “less government” but their definition of less government and a libertarian definition are very different. A libertarian says you can have less government by abolishing the war on drugs. The Birchers and Paul say you get it by having the states run the war on drugs instead.

A libertarian says that church and state (any level of government) must be separated. The Birch and Paul view is that church and state may be combined at the level of the 50 states just not at the federal level."

Link: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/sea...bel/Illuminati

Thanks Muai Thay. I remember hearing about the Bavarian origin a while back.

Sadly, your analysis is too reasonable for true believers.

I know. Logic dictates that the simplest answer is most often the true one. Which answer is simpler (The question being: Who are/were the Illuminati?) mine, or Rob's far flung globe spanning conspiracies?

Well I'm not certain who controls the masons and illuminated ones but they are the any kind of god goes and refer to Lucifer as the god of their enlightened world.

Birch society means well and I don't think they are anti-hispanic as much as they are against illegal immigrants walking in our country taking many of our jobs and claiming Mexican pride while bankrupting our hospitals in border states with free health care which they have been doing. Any immigrant can come in this country and gain rights that I don't have as a citizen. Thats farked up.

Male citizens can marry and have everything handed to an illegal immigrant once she has a child and they both are automatic citizens. Mexicans have a name for these women who marry and deliberately use these men for benefits.

NAU is way past the theory level just as EU is factual now.
This isn't paranoia on the Birch society, it's reality. It's on the news and our new NAU currency has been created.
Check our the Amero .




I like some of what Ron Paul is about but he is in denial about the threats to our country from Muslims. Sure not all are terrorist but their are many creating a ruckus in many countries in the name of allah. Countries all over the world have these nutters terrorizing the populus.

Our country is built upon cheap labor, as are all succesful economies. Illegal immigrants provide this by the very virtue of being illegal. If they were citizens, they'd have to be paid a decent wage, and all that would happen is a massive rise in inflation to compensate for the raised pay expectations of Day laborers and fast food workers. The same would occur if we booted them all.

And you can't STEAL a job. A job is given to you, or it is not. If I choose to have my friend paint my home rather than a professional, I am not taking a job from the pro, as it was never offered to him. No one OWNS a job, hence you can't steal it.

I dont disagree with what you said here but I believe a gvernment is too represent the interest of it's people or citizens and not aid copreratiosn that go abraod to make profits off of cheap labor. The country runs best when it's citizens interest are put first priority.

Corps today are jumping on cheap labor and hiring foreigners. Those left here are cutting benefits left and right in order to make more profits mainly because they have an abundance of potential employees and so they don't have to offer much.

Corps have much more benefits and legal rights than citizens and yet the corp can't be jailed for breaking laws.
They are cutting out the middle class.
Rich and poor.
Illegals are great if you benefits from low wages but end the end they hurt others who take less paying jobs to compete. Corps have advantages that small businesses don't. Corps hurt these.

Most construction workers haven't gained a pay raise in decades and many work without health care. These are some of the hardest workers in the world with job hazards galore.

Feminism and corperations = consumerism and have many things in common. They help each other and only seek what's best for themselves.

Who do illegal workers hurt the most?
Low wage, Blue collar legal Males

Believe me, I know the desperation that is occuring in most parts of the construction industry, I plumbed out here for 2 years before I realized that fighting is what I wanted.

I supose I don't really belive in borders or nations, as these are just more divisions to get people to hate eachother for stupid reasons. However, for arguments sake, (and because my ideal world will never be close to reality), I think the solution is easy to get work visas, to legitamize the people who want to work, and a clearer, Ellis Island type path to citizenship.

Just remember this: We didn't ask the natives permission to come here either.

I see your point but I think people just hate differences.
Culture differences often make unpleasant neighbors.

I agree about the Indians, my wife is part cherokee and they were done wrong many times in our history and mostly peaceful people. Desoto was a sorry sob who decimated Indians tribes where I live for the purpose of taking all they had. They were nice to him and turned on them and slaughtered them. The blackfoot and others slaughtered other Indian tribes often. General Custer sure had it coming. The world was untamed and uncivilized. There was fighting all over the globe at the time.

The USA is a nation of immigrants who become citizens and assimilate into our culture. But to come here and refuse to do what our forefathers did, learn the language and take a oath is not going to make peace between us.

Societies have always thrown up walls to protect the people and what belongs to them. I hold the belief that we are all related but that don't stop us from fighting each other.


.

"I hold the belief that we are all related but that don't stop us from fighting each other." Good point


I think then, that immigrants need to be given the same options our forefathers did. Sign your oath (assuming you believe in allegiance to a specfic nation), and take english classes or something. It's true they are not trying as hard to assimilate, but then again, we as americans focus so much on how we are all different that assimilation is getting to be nearly impossible.

All immigrants have the same options but many refuse to go the the motons. Many come here and work cheap without paying the taxes most of us do and soak up the free medical benefits that I can't get. They have bankrupted many hospitals across the country.

You could also turn around and say they have to work cheap, so they can't afford the insurance that covers things besides the most basic services that hospitals are legally obliged to give. . No day laborer is going to get triple bypass surgery, or a new liver.

And it's not just illegal immigrants who have to use emergency services exclusively, growing up I did not know ONE SINGLE person with any sort of insurance, with the exception of my teachers of course, as their union provided insurance. Were it not for the free insurance my work provides I would be in the same boat.