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Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

This is a discussion on Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe? within the Conspiracy Theories forums, part of the General category; Scientists: Nothing to fear from atom-smasher By DOUGLAS BIRCH, Associated Press Writer Sat Jun 28, 3:08 PM ET MEYRIN, Switzerland ...


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  #1  
Old 29th-June-2008
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Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Scientists: Nothing to fear from atom-smasher

By DOUGLAS BIRCH, Associated Press Writer Sat Jun 28, 3:08 PM ET

MEYRIN, Switzerland - The most powerful atom-smasher ever built could make some bizarre discoveries, such as invisible matter or extra dimensions in space, after it is switched on in August.


But some critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists' wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead clump?
Ridiculous, say scientists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French initials CERN — some of whom have been working for a generation on the $5.8 billion collider, or LHC.
"Obviously, the world will not end when the LHC switches on," said project leader Lyn Evans.
David Francis, a physicist on the collider's huge ATLAS particle detector, smiled when asked whether he worried about black holes and hypothetical killer particles known as strangelets.
"If I thought that this was going to happen, I would be well away from here," he said.
The collider basically consists of a ring of supercooled magnets 17 miles in circumference attached to huge barrel-shaped detectors. The ring, which straddles the French and Swiss border, is buried 330 feet underground.
The machine, which has been called the largest scientific experiment in history, isn't expected to begin test runs until August, and ramping up to full power could take months. But once it is working, it is expected to produce some startling findings.
Scientists plan to hunt for signs of the invisible "dark matter" and "dark energy" that make up more than 96 percent of the universe, and hope to glimpse the elusive Higgs boson, a so-far undiscovered particle thought to give matter its mass.
The collider could find evidence of extra dimensions, a boon for superstring theory, which holds that quarks, the particles that make up atoms, are infinitesimal vibrating strings.
The theory could resolve many of physics' unanswered questions, but requires about 10 dimensions — far more than the three spatial dimensions our senses experience.
The safety of the collider, which will generate energies seven times higher than its most powerful rival, at Fermilab near Chicago, has been debated for years. The physicist Martin Rees has estimated the chance of an accelerator producing a global catastrophe at one in 50 million — long odds, to be sure, but about the same as winning some lotteries.
By contrast, a CERN team this month issued a report concluding that there is "no conceivable danger" of a cataclysmic event. The report essentially confirmed the findings of a 2003 CERN safety report, and a panel of five prominent scientists not affiliated with CERN, including one Nobel laureate, endorsed its conclusions.
Critics of the LHC filed a lawsuit in a Hawaiian court in March seeking to block its startup, alleging that there was "a significant risk that ... operation of the Collider may have unintended consequences which could ultimately result in the destruction of our planet."
One of the plaintiffs, Walter L. Wagner, a physicist and lawyer, said Wednesday CERN's safety report, released June 20, "has several major flaws," and his views on the risks of using the particle accelerator had not changed.
On Tuesday, U.S. Justice Department lawyers representing the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation filed a motion to dismiss the case.
The two agencies have contributed $531 million to building the collider, and the NSF has agreed to pay $87 million of its annual operating costs. Hundreds of American scientists will participate in the research.
The lawyers called the plaintiffs' allegations "extraordinarily speculative," and said "there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from black holes or other objects the LHC might produce. A hearing on the motion is expected in late July or August.
In rebutting doomsday scenarios, CERN scientists point out that cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth, and triggering collisions similar to those planned for the collider, since the solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago.
And so far, Earth has survived.
"The LHC is only going to reproduce what nature does every second, what it has been doing for billions of years," said John Ellis, a British theoretical physicist at CERN.
Critics like Wagner have said the collisions caused by accelerators could be more hazardous than those of cosmic rays.
Both may produce micro black holes, subatomic versions of cosmic black holes — collapsed stars whose gravity fields are so powerful that they can suck in planets and other stars.
But micro black holes produced by cosmic ray collisions would likely be traveling so fast they would pass harmlessly through the earth.
Micro black holes produced by a collider, the skeptics theorize, would move more slowly and might be trapped inside the earth's gravitational field — and eventually threaten the planet.
Ellis said doomsayers assume that the collider will create micro black holes in the first place, which he called unlikely. And even if they appeared, he said, they would instantly evaporate, as predicted by the British physicist Stephen Hawking.
As for strangelets, CERN scientists point out that they have never been proven to exist. They said that even if these particles formed inside the Collider they would quickly break down.
When the LHC is finally at full power, two beams of protons will race around the huge ring 11,000 times a second in opposite directions. They will travel in two tubes about the width of fire hoses, speeding through a vacuum that is colder and emptier than outer space.
Their trajectory will be curved by supercooled magnets — to guide the beams around the rings and prevent the packets of protons from cutting through the surrounding magnets like a blowtorch.
The paths of these beams will cross, and a few of the protons in them will collide, at a series of cylindrical detectors along the ring. The two largest detectors are essentially huge digital cameras, each weighing thousands of tons, capable of taking millions of snapshots a second.
Each year the detectors will generate 15 petabytes of data, the equivalent of a stack of CDs 12 miles tall. The data will require a high speed global network of computers for analysis.
Wagner and others filed a lawsuit to halt operation of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, or RHIC, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York state in 1999. The courts dismissed the suit.
The leafy campus of CERN, a short drive from the shores of Lake Geneva, hardly seems like ground zero for doomsday. And locals don't seem overly concerned. Thousands attended an open house here this spring.
"There is a huge army of scientists who know what they are talking about and are sleeping quite soundly as far as concerns the LHC," said project leader Evans.


 
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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Does anyone else here find this just a bit unsettling? Even if the odds really are one in 50 million of a global catastrophe (and not higher than that), do we really want to take the gamble?


 
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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Yes. God, I hate the risk-aversion of this culture. If this goes on we will be too afraid to let men near children, with all those paedophiles among them. Erm, oh never mind, this has already happened in the U.S.

For all we know, the nearby star system WR 104 might explode and produce a gamma-ray burst, possibly wiping out all life on Earth. It might already have happened, in which case the shock-wave and impending doom is plowing its way towards us as we speak.

Sleep tight.


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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the sad geek View Post
It might already have happened, in which case the shock-wave and impending doom is plowing its way towards us as we speak.

Sleep tight.
Ahhh crap!

If it ain't feminists, it a damn big star. We just can't win!








Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.




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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

I think the potential gains far outweigh the risks.

The things that can be learned here would have far reaching effects like cleaner energy production or new ways to fight cancer.

It could even lead to space travel beyond the boundry of the moon.



Chevalier.
"no greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for his brother."
 
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

I've heard a LOT of discussion about this, from both sides. (My name is Kelly, and I'm a Coast to Coast AM addict).

I think we worry too much.

If it happens, it happens. We won't know the difference, and then we won't be able to litter other planets with our species and all its issues.

If it doesn't happen, great. We stand to gain SO MUCH from this being successful.


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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

When they exploded the first Atomic Bomb at the Trinity test site, they thought that it may ignite the atmosphere, however, they did it anyway, these people are INSANE !!!



Cain murdered Abel and never batted an eyelid - I wonder what Cain`s descendants do ???
 
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Old 29th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

I wonder how they arrive at a probability figure of 1 in 50 000 000.

I am sure glad it is not one in 500 000 , that would be just way too risky. LOL


 
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Old 30th-June-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Dontcha just love statistics.

What are the chances of four quadrillion cells each with its own independant power supply, from over two hundred distinct species, coming to gether to form one coherent, intelligent creature? What is the likelihood of that happening twice.


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I have tried all my life to leave the place better than I found it.
But there are 6 billion other buggers out there messing it up.
I am outnumbered.
But...
YOU don't just make a difference,
you make THE difference.

 
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  #10  
Old 17th-August-2008
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Re: Atom smasher to cause cosmic catastrophe?

Here's another statistic. Jesus was betrayed by 8% of his disciples.


 
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