Thread: You realise we're fighting nature right?

Morning TOO, I'm in England and it's now 4:33am. I dont' have to revise any exams, but still - it's 4:33am, and I'm up pottering around.

I agree with you entirely that civilisations are alike to living organisms, I see human's as some form of a cancer (and I'd thought this long before the line in the matrix by the virus baddy). I think we'll destroy the Earth, and move onto new pastures in the form of a new planet that can sustain life... Once there, we'll begin building concrete blobs that we'll reside in, tearing up the land for our benefit, etc. and so destroy that one too.
Then, we'll move on - again, and again, and again, until the Universe collapses - taking everything with it.

But, that's going a bit deep for 4:33am.

So, I'm going to smoke a moment, then I'll get back to you some more...

I have thought of this too. Civilizations rise and fall; technologies are discovered and forgotten; human progress is punctuated by death and decay. If our civilization should decline it will be due to many factors not just a few. I identify myself as a "liberal" so I wouldn't say liberalism is a cause for the decay! But I guess it depends on how you define liberal and I would agree that some of the fruits of the far left and feminism are bad for society, especially with Westerners' attitudes toward family and children. However the far right is not without blame either, with their irresponsible, laissez-faire approach to business and environmental protection.

Capitalism is wonderful for all the the ingenuity and prosperity that it creates. But on its dark side it tends to place greed and gluttony as the highest values. Where there is not a need to be fulfilled, a need is created by marketing. We become gluttons gobbling up everything in sight and creating a lot of waste because waste generates more profits than conservation. It is almost impossible to escape materialism. I wonder how many civilizations died because they either ate all the resources or died in their own toxic waste? Corruption is closely related, and is a deadly force in opposition to civilization that, like materialism, becomes very difficult to resist once it's become a way of life for a nation.

How about television? Quite a number of us are a bunch of junkies rotting our brains on t.v. or other entertainments. We the Sheeple want to be entertained, not think or work too hard. And quite a number are deep in debt because it is too easy. So while we are working harder to make ends meet and becoming more stupid and lazy, the forces of chaos are chipping away at our civilization. Is Global Warming really a threat? I haven't studied the topic much so I don't know, but humans are certainly capable of wrecking nature until it is uninhabitable. It's frightening when a man with the IQ of a chimp has control over the nukes. Humanity could possibly survive a minor catastrophy, but civilization probably would not. It would have to be reinvented all over again and future archeologists would find our cars and computers and have no idea what they are.

Karl you are more optimistic about space travel than I am.

Yes, I think that in anywhere between a few hundred and a few thousand years we'll be travelling the planets throughout our neighbouring systems as frequently as we currently do other countries.

We already have teleportation technology - though it's literally at the stage of atoms for this moment in time.

I'm not a trekkie, but I do think Gene Rodenberry (I think that's how his name is spelt) sees things that are not impossible.

I'm also confident that at some point time travel will be possible - in fact, it already is at a theoretical degree... we just lack the technology to impliment it.

As for feminism, I think feminism is the cancer of humanity. It attacks psychologically, genetically, mentally, verbally, etc.

Since feminism, society has fall downhill in a horrific spiral of self-pity, decline of birthrates, violence and women who think they're men and men who don't have a clue what being a man is because they're bombarded with so many 'female oriented' definitions through the television, magazines and other forms of propaganda.

Yeah, feminism is the unseen death of humanity.

What has happened when each civilization fell? They all fell when a stronger opponent took over since the citizens were to lazy and corrupt to properly defend themselves. Otherwise there have been civil wars that tear a country apart.

Personally, I think it will end one of two ways. Either we will change to be more like China (since everyone slowly starts acting like the strongest country, and in time this will be China) or a civil war will break out and America will get restructured. I would like to think that the Government could be changed for the better politically, however the media, politicians, ect. have too much invested in the status quo to allow this change.

I don't think we're going to make it. Looking at the downward trend of birth rates world wide #1, number two, #2. looking at the decreasing morality and civility of the next generation and #3. the fact that it's all happening along the same timeline everywhere at once, leads me to believe we aren't going to make it.

The aging population will be far more of a burden for societies than many of us are led to believe. If the youth of today were brought up in two-parent homes, with strong male role models and morality, then we might survive the huge economic down turn that depopulation will create - we have weathered other storms in the past, when our families and neighbourhoods were strong - they are no longer.

If it were just one country, or two or three, or even a half-dozen maybe, but that feminism has become so widespread, and its effects so far reaching, the entire world will be grappling with the self-same problem at the self same time. This is a recipe for chaos.

Of course there are those who believe themselves to be Gods, who can create order 'out of chaos', but they are seriously and purposely misled. They will see how wrong they are in time, but much too late for it to do either them or us any good.

All we have at work are half-assed measures: pay women to have more children, add a dozen seats to medical programs, allow for retirees to keep working past 65 etc. None of these half assed measures will be enough in the end.

Will some people survive the coming collapse? Oh, most certainly. Will society look even remotely like it does today? No. Anarchy and death will be the rule, when tyranny and oppression are not enough. Perhaps, as one MRA wrote, we will all be vassels of China, and move even further to the left of the political spectrum, (if this is possible), towards complete dictatorship.

This thread's getting too gloomy for me!

Historical examples:
The Ancient Greeks produced men of renown but their civilisation failed because they ruined their topsoil and couldn't grow corn (my theory- but I'm not alone). They had to switch to deep-rooting crops like vines and olives and become a trading nation. It kept them going but left them vulnerable.

But Greek philosophy and science is still with us today - preserved in the east (especially by those damned Muslims) and returned to Europe in The Renaissance. It's the foundation on which modern science is built.

Can't resist a personal anecdote here. In the early 90's I worked in the mountains of Northern Pakistan. When I wore the local clothes and spoke Urdu, nobody assumed I was a foreigner. Why? Because Alexander the Great (Sikander Khan) and his men enjoyed a lot of R & R in that region over two thousand years ago. There are thousands of guys that look just like me and a fair percentage are actually named 'Sikander'.

The Roman Empire declined from within, whatever anybody says (I'm certainly not alone on this one) but Roman law is the basis of western jurisprudence. And you can't get far in western academia unless you use English words of Latin origin rather than Anglo-Saxon vernacular.

Empires may rise and fall, but thinking people adapt.

The MRM is a very loose organisation. It's members range from the highly articulate to the positively wierd. But we all have one thing in common. We see the barbarians approaching the gates.

We try to extrapolate what will happen next and consider the best course of action - fight or flight.

Culture, knowledge, and understanding can be repressed in one place but they just pop up in another. That's nature too.

I've always thought that feminism was a symptom, rather than a cause, of the current malaise (I'll wash my mouth out later). It's because we can plainly see the havoc that feminism has wrought, that we naturally rail against it.

But we don't ask, "What in hell caused the wierd social experiment of feminism to grow and prosper". To say that manginas just want to get laid is a cop-out. Women want to get laid too. 'The market', that works beneficially at the individual man/woman level, is being played for profit by people with inside knowledge.

And what's this nature? A computer programme would come clean and say - 'Insufficient data to compute', when faced with too many variables and too many unknowns. Instead, we men call on God or nature but we still know which way the wind is blowing. Call it 'Men's Intuition' if you like - or even Men's Ways of Knowing'.

P.S. While composing, I missed the post of TSP, who always looks for the bigger picture.

He/we should rest assured that feminism cannot reach far beyond the borders of a western style welfare state. it's a product of rich, decadent and guilt-ridden societies. Why else would feminists be so keen to infiltrate International Aid agencies? It's merely an opportunity to climb on the bandwagon and dispense western feminist largesse to the starving.

Will some people survive the coming collapse? Oh, most certainly. Will society look even remotely like it does today? No. Anarchy and death will be the rule, when tyranny and oppression are not enough. Perhaps, as one MRA wrote, we will all be vassels of China, and move even further to the left of the political spectrum, (if this is possible), towards complete dictatorship.

Whatever we may have been told by the western media, there is not a Chinese conspiracy or evil empire. Chinese are all over the world. They adapt. Even the food from your local Chinese restaurant is adapted to the local taste. They're not (yet) thinking about vassals - they're thinking about customers!

Of course there are those who believe themselves to be Gods, who can create order 'out of chaos', but they are seriously and purposely misled. They will see how wrong they are in time, but much too late for it to do either them or us any good.

Well said TSP!

So, do we learn Chinese or fight feminism in mangina courts? Surely there must be more than these two options? How about MGTOW .... but going where and why?

Western men don't need to fight. By merely absenting themselves and refusing to cooperate, the paper castle falls.
But they really do need to think about what they will do instead.

"I've always thought that feminism was a symptom, rather than a cause, of the current malaise"

Me too Yan Yan, it seems to have really taken hold after the death of JFK and the subsequent turmoil of the '60s, at least in N America

I was watching some old footage from that era and found myself thinking "Yep, me and my fellow boomers really dropped the ball, turning our backs on every Western institution for the sake of selfish materialism"

You could argue that 2nd wave marxo-feminism seized a moment of cultural vulnerability to do their dirty work, in cahoots with big business consumerism and big government liberalism

As for the future, I think humans are incredibly adaptable, but I can't see how we'll be able to leave Earth behind completely for a long time, maybe centuries

Quote from Yan Yan

Whatever we may have been told by the western media, there is not a Chinese conspiracy or evil empire. Chinese are all over the world. They adapt. Even the food from your local Chinese restaurant is adapted to the local taste. They're not (yet) thinking about vassals - they're thinking about customers!

This is where I disagree with you Yan Yan. I think that the communist Chinese have proven their evil intent on a number of occassions. Firstly, they're constantly being caught spying on western nations - probably to check how far we've progressed toward marxism. Secondly, they've sent monies to influence election outcomes in the US. towards wins for the democrats, supporting both the Clinton and Gore campaigns. Third, they've threatened world war three a number of times, posturing over Taiwan. And fourth, they're communist and as everyone knows, communism is a virus.

Communism demands that its philosophy spread globally, and China will push for the expansion of its philosophy outside of its borders.

Lastly, and most tellingly perhaps, China has instituted one of its towns a Feminist Mecca in which female citizens are daily compelled to whack the men with sticks for all the evil past injustices of the partriarchy.

No, I don't trust China in the least. Just like the feminist variety of Marxism, the Chinese version is by design, global in nature and therefore very much a threat.

I am the one who wrote we will be more like China. What I meant by the comment is that everyone usually gravitates to be like whoever is the most prosperous. America has been exporting democracy and freedom ideals for a long time. And a lot of other countries have become Westernized, usually following America's movement.

When America becomes shorthanded due to aging population, brain drain of retirement, and many welfare incumbents, there is a chance we will lose out position as a Superpower. China could very well walk up and fill this void. If that should happen then America may start taking cues from China, thus imitating the more powerful party. I don't think China is going to march over and try to take the US by force.

Now another thought is that the bird flu pandemic may finally hit and this could kill off a lot of the elderly. Which would reduce the strain of keeping an aging population. The resulting chaos would most likely topple the current welfare state, since there would be emergencies everywhere in the US.

Anyway that is enough ranting for the moment.

Quote from TheOldOligarch

I've been wondering for the past hour or so why we are all so confident; there is no reason to assume we will win this fight. The troubles that assail us now, feminism, comunism, liberalism; they have slain more civilizations that any of us have had hot meals. There is no reason to assume that we will be able to reverse the apathy that grips our society now, any more than the Romans could.

[...]

All empires, nations and peoples fall. A civilization is just like a living organism, while young it is vigourous and dynamic but just like a living being it grows old and dies.I have had endless arguements with people along the lines of ''the Athenians could have kept their empire if they did x'' or ''If the Romans had done y they could have avoided the collapse''. These things seem avoidable in hindsight but really they are the product of age. I cant shake the feeling that what is happening in the west now is not a phase that we will look back on later but a decline that will end western society completely.

Its actually a terrible thought. I was wondering anyway why you guys seem to think we will be victorious considering it would be a first in 6000 years of human history?

I don't.

Have you read the book "Sex and Culture" by Unwin? It is a remarkable book that is very hard to find. Unwin is an anthropologist who studied all anthropological evidence available at his time and finds that the degree of development of any society is completely dependent of female premarital chastity. He then looks at historical evidence and finds the same conclusion. And he finds that all empires fell when this loosened.

I got this book through inter-library loan and I made a scan which can be found here:

http://www.tenjune.com/SexCulture.zip

This is why I believe that trying to change existing culture is a waste of time. This culture is doomed. Some new culture will replace it. The best men can do is to work on starting a new culture.

One can't assume that the next culture will be more advanced than the current one. Development is not guaranteed. I visited a museum in Xalapa, Mexico that made this clear to me. The museum is a long hall full of artifacts organized chronologically. There were basically 3 cultures represented, in order, the Olmecs, the Maya, and the Aztecs. It was clear from the artifacts that each new civilization was more primitive than the one that came before it. Mexico has been declining for thousands of years. There is no reason why this couldn't happen on a world-wide scale.

If you look at the current contenders for the next civilization, you will see that it is likely to be more primitive than ours. The contenders are really only small extreme religious groups. As much as I admire these groups for their ability to resist feminism, it is quite unlikely that they will produce an advanced culture. If no other alternative is developed, I assume that as the modern world decays, parts of it will be conquered by various extreme religious groups, and this will be the world's future. The only way to avoid this is for reasonable men to withdraw from today's decaying culture and to form a new culture for the future.

One can't assume that the next culture will be more advanced than the current one...... If you look at the current contenders for the next civilization, you will see that it is likely to be more primitive than ours

I canoot disagree with this in principle. Equally though we cannot assume that we will not be 'replaced' by a more advanced one. It is a timescale issue and a stage-development issue.

We have a number of civilisations current that have all evolved to a base level well above that of any previous eras. This is particularly noticeable in terms of material comforts and trade and manufacture and technology etc etc, not to mention health, education and lifespan.

The Western 'ethic' and philosophy of civil conduct is deteriorating and that may well be an indication that the European Enlightenment Civilisation is on its way out.

However.......

Humankind has opened a new door. It is a door we have been busy creating for the past forty years while the virus of feminism has been infecting the old regime. We need to step through it.

It is my understanding, without a specific theory to back it, but a nevertheless conforming to a paradigm that is well understood (paradigms are superior to theories) that nature - of which we are a part - has already taken the next step. It takes a while for natural evolutionary forces to take root and grow.

The Noosphere is up and running. Mind matters. Nature is a force integral to the Planet. It is an expression of this planet. Life is nature's way of expressing the biological potential of the Planet. These issues are gainsaid. Biological life has a huge variety of ways of 'being' and is not static and it is not a 'dead end' or an end in itself. It is simply a stage expression.

From the myriad forms of biological life, developed ober several billion years, motility developed - creatures instead of simply vegetation. From those myriad creatures, around for hundreds of millions of years, one has stood out as having 'mind' potential. And that potential has been around for only a million years or so.

The planet is starting to 'think'.

Nature, through us, is building a brain, just as it built varieties of brain in individual creatures. But this is a 'whole of mankind', Brain. The infrastructure now exists in a primitive form and we - you, me, everyone contributing here - is programing it. Our ways of expressing ourselves will form the extant and living 'personality' of the Planet.

Then we, as mankind, will really take off.

The question for anyone who cares to think about it is, will we have a heart.

Would not the heart possibly be the core of the Earth?

"""As I said, I live in the UK, and it has been a relatively new discovery that I do not actual expect to win this battle. This country has one of the best birth rates in Europe, propped up as it is by teenage pregnancy but it is still well below replacement levels. The land is flooded with foreigners who have no alliegance, no ties, and no stake in the interests or future of the nation."""

same here in Australia they come in under from near and far straight onto the public teat and cannot be questioned about as they are protected under the Aegis of the subversive concept and practise of
multiculturalism

that is youse coop pigeons with hawks and and pond goldfish with piranhas or

else they prosecute you for racism discrimination or whatever politically correct claptrap is suitable to subvert western institutions

In years to come Australia UK and other 'First world" democracies now but then they will be administered from Mecca

Quote from Marx

Would not the heart possibly be the core of the Earth?

No ... A pentium IIIIIIIIIIIIII.... .

skynet?