I want to know, if MRAs ruled the world, if we ruled the world, what would life be like?

How would the family court system change? What would be the rules for granting divorce, how would the custody of the children be determined? What rules should be used to determine who gets custody. What should the financial settlement be after a divorce? How much child support should be awarded? What about dividing marital property. Should men pay any money towards their ex-wives in addition to child support? What factors should be considered in deciding how property should be divided and what the financial transfers should be after a divorce?

How should men and women relate to each other? Are there particular roles that men and women should play in a family, and if so, how would you describe the way that men should treat women and how should women treat men? Alternatively, should men and women simply develop their own kind of relationship according to their own preferences without neccessarily following any predetermind gender roles? What is a sufficient reason for getting a divorce in the first place, what kinds of bad behaviors are serious enough to warrant a divorce. What about abortion? Should it be totally illegal? Should a woman only be able to get an abortion with the father's or husband's approval?

How should the law deal with cases of domestic violence or abuse of children? What rules should be used for determining punishments or protective actions, such as removing children from their parents or in deciding which parent should have custordy of a child, or in granting protective orders? How should rape be dealt with? What kinds of standards of proof should there be? What should the punishments be? How should false accusations be dealt with in terms of proof and punishment?

What would the work place be like? Would it be about equal numbers of men and women or would the great majority of workers outside the home be male? What about laws against discrimination, against not paying women equally to men or in not promoting women as often as men, or against not hiring women for jobs? Should these kinds of anti-discrimination laws still be in place or should employers be able to make their own decisions how they treat their workers?

The preceding is not an exhaustive list. If you can think of other changes that should take place in the culture or in the law feel free to say what they should be.

What are we fighting for? What do we want? What is our vision of a better world?

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely


"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

To answer this all would be stuff for a book, and not for a short comment.
Maybe you can separate all these questions into smaller units.

I do not think, there will be ever something like 'ruling the world' ... not for MRAs, not for feminists, not for Islam, etc. There will be always different countries, with different laws, people with different opinions.

What you should do as an individual - let me say as a single young man - living in US/UK/EU is to study about existing laws, especially family-laws, to compare them with the legal situation in other countries, to understand what regulations might be harmful to you and to avoid mistakes, which might considerably - beyond your control - change your life to the worst.

My thinking in posting this topic is simply to try to create a sense of purpose, a sense of how to get from where we are today to where we want to be in the future. I would suggest that each poster maybe just say the one or two changes in society that they would want to see the most. The list of subjects I provided was just to get people thinking about what it is specifically they want to be changed.

I want to know, if MRAs ruled the world, if we ruled the world, what would life be like?

You ask so many questions that my answers must necessarily be quite brief. I would like to hear your answers too. ( Percy)

How would the family court system change?

It would go. Completely. The main judicial beneficiaries of this huge corrupt rort would be jailed if more gentle wills than mine prevailed.

What would be the rules for granting divorce,

Contract law. Break your contract;compensate your partner. Jointly agree on divorce and go right ahead. Unilateral decision - compensate the one who is left. One partner breaks contract and he/she compensates the other.

how would the custody of the children be determined?

BOTH parents to be totally, wholly, jointly and sevarally responsible and accountable for the custody, financial welfare, wellbeing, education and upbringing of their children.

What rules should be used to determine who gets custody.

Them IS the Rules.

What should the financial settlement be after a divorce?

Take out what finances you put in at the start and half of what you put in throughout the marriage. Inflationary gains split in half.

How much child support should be awarded?

None. It is not for someone else to determine, just as what one earns is not a Judges determination. See the rules for children above.

What about dividing marital property.

You've asked that and I have answered.

Should men pay any money towards their ex-wives in addition to child support?

No. Why on earth should they have to? Ex-wives should not pay to upkeep ex-husbands either. It is their business not yours.

What factors should be considered in deciding how property should be divided and what the financial transfers should be after a divorce?

That's the third time ! Already answered.

How should men and women relate to each other?

Should? How they relate is their business.

Are there particular roles that men and women should play in a family, and if so, how would you describe the way that men should treat women and how should women treat men?
Alternatively, should men and women simply develop their own kind of relationship according to their own preferences without neccessarily following any predetermind gender roles?

Their roles are their business. Loving each other would be a good start. Honestly.

What is a sufficient reason for getting a divorce in the first place, what kinds of bad behaviors are serious enough to warrant a divorce.

None of my business nor yours. There are already laws for criminal behaviour. Everything else is legal. A contract has been enetered into, to Love and Honour, in good times and bad, in sickness and health, for better for worse, until death. Breaking the contract is grounds.

What about abortion? Should it be totally illegal? Should a woman only be able to get an abortion with the father's or husband's approval?

Abortion is killing. In most circumstances it is murder. In some instances it may be the lesser of two evils. Children - human beings - start at conception.

is an individual who holds no regard for the sanctity of human life on the whole.

The rules for children as above - BOTH parents to be totally, wholly, jointly and sevarally responsible and accountable for the custody, financial welfare, wellbeing, education and upbringing of their children. That includes during the gestation phase.


How should the law deal with cases of domestic violence or abuse of children?

There are laws regarding assault. Parents are to be held accountable for their children's wellbeing at al, as above.

What rules should be used for determining punishments or protective actions, such as removing children from their parents or in deciding which parent should have custordy of a child,

Are you listening? BOTH parents etc etc.... Assault laws....

or in granting protective orders?

Protective orders? Do you mean that when a protective order is NOT in place that all other laws don't apply? There is no need for a 'protective order'. That is just a legal profession business development ruse.


How should rape be dealt with?

As a crime, in a criminal court. How else?

What kinds of standards of proof should there be?

Beyond reasonable doubt using Tested evidence. How else?

What should the punishments be?

Depends upon other factors - as with most crimes.

How should false accusations be dealt with in terms of proof and punishment?

Perjury laws That's what perjury was for.

What would the work place be like? Would it be about equal numbers of men and women or would the great majority of workers outside the home be male?

That would work itself out. It would probably be more cost efficient.

What about laws against discrimination, against not paying women equally to men or in not promoting women as often as men, or against not hiring women for jobs? Should these kinds of anti-discrimination laws still be in place or should employers be able to make their own decisions how they treat their workers?

We have laws that entrench discrimination at the moment. These must go. Pay according to proven worth. An employer who makes the wrong decision is unlikely to be successful in the long run. If there is to be workplace law at all it should not take discriminate on gender grounds. Why should men be promoted as often as women or vice versa. Promote the deserving. The better of those available, shirley?


The preceding is not an exhaustive list. If you can think of other changes that should take place in the culture or in the law feel free to say what they should be.

What are we fighting for? What do we want? What is our vision of a better world?

Another newbie demands that somebody become his dancing monkey. Looks like Percy took the bait; you ought to feel awfully grateful, ST, that he gave you such a thorough answer.

Hey, buddy, try reading what's been posted in the forum before. Watch and listen; you might learn something.

Husband and wife, father and mother should be equals, however this is not the case in Western countries.

Women have a choice - men have not.

Women, according to present Western laws, have the right either to go for abortion, to give the newborn away for adoption, to become pregnant from another man and explain the husband he is the father...

All this can be done without even any obligation to inform the husband...yes, the husband has not even the right to be correctly informed about what is going on!

After divorce this woman still can force her ex-husband to pay child-support and to pay alimony to her despite he was badly cheated and is not the biological father...

This is not 'equal', it is single-sided - it's about benefits and rights automatically to the woman, and obligations to the man regardless the circumstances.

Such laws must be changed - they are clearly unfair.
See above, just one example...

How should false rape allegations be dealt with?

Should women pay any money towards their ex-husbands in addition to child support?
You mean, women should be forced to accept services like garbage collection, construction, military services to avoid that men as majority are doing such jobs?

Quote:

I want to know, if MRAs ruled the world, if we ruled the world, what would life be like?

You see already the direction I guess....the woman should never ask for something, what the man is not supposed to ask for... = privileges, advantages solely out of your gender.

Tera,

Why are you asking first about child-support?

The first question to ask would be, if you are really the biological father of these children.

I can say it only about the country, where I am living since over 30 years, there is no law about child-support, but there is also no law about visitation rights. In most cases, children stay with the mother and the system seems to work.

Child support is done by agreement of both parents, the ex-husband and the ex-wife, out of court.
If the ex-husband wants to see the children, he is supposed to show up with money.
If he is unwilling to pay, the ex-wife can refuse him to visit their children.

What do you think about it?
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You have to see other aspects, too.

In USA I would never accept a single mother with children, because should we split, I have to pay child-support, despite these children are from an earlier relationship of that woman.

In Japan, where I am living, I can easily accept a single mother with children, and if we split, I have to pay NO child-support.

It is easy to find any other man in Japan if you are a single mother, but it is much more difficult in USA, as men are mistrusting, and they have a good reason to be mistrusting and suspicious.

Your comment?

Tera, DO NOT DO THAT.

Where did I say child support is not paid? Where did I say equally?

DO NOT PUT YOUR WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

I said VERY CLEARLY in words that a ten year old can understand -

I was refering - as you can EASILY see, to child support being 'AWARDED'.

I had already stated, again in easy to understand words - BOTH parents to be totally, wholly, jointly and severally responsible and accountable for the custody, financial welfare, wellbeing, education and upbringing of their children.

Just what part of this escapes you?

Listen, read.

BOTH parents to be totally, wholly, jointly and severally responsible and accountable for the custody, financial welfare, wellbeing, education and upbringing of their children.

Read it three or four times so that it sinks in.

Equally? That is NOT my business. It is not YOUR business. It is the Parent's business. One may be earning more than the other. One might be ill. One might be dead, for Christ's sake. Both are responsible to pay TOTALLY. WHOLLY. JOINTLY and SEVERALLY.

Gordon, friggin' Bennett.

Get Google to translate it into a language you can understand.

PS.

AWARDED, by whom?

All the Judges will be hanging in the Town Square.

@TERA

Here in Japan there is no law about child-support and visitation rights.

About divorce and custody: If parents agree about divorce and custody, and usually they do, it is done out of court, sometimes with the help/consultation of lawyers/welfare office etc. to sign a legal binding contract.

The legal system is quite different here from the USA.
Yes, you might ask for a court decision, if a couple cannot agree to divorce/custody out of court. However keep in mind that:

All what is related to Japanese courts is slow over years, very expensive, and it might take many many years for a decision especially in case one of the former partners shows up with claims and objections and up to the final decision, this couple will be legally still considered to be married.

All court fees have to be paid in advance and will never be paid back regardless if your claims are approved or not.. etc. etc...

Generally, nobody wants to bring divorce, custody to a court for a final decision, even not lawyers considering their financial situation...what can they earn out of such court trials?

Japanese courts are a lost-game for all, you cannot win anything there, so arrange your problems yourself.

Most couples agree to arrange their problems among themselves. For sure, the state is not interfering into your privately arranged decisions and courts do not want to be bothered with such divorce cases.
Yes they really do. A Japanese woman might just take the children, move away and has the right to refuse visitation.
There is no legal way even to force her to disclose her new address to the ex-husband, regardless if he as father is a Japanese or a foreigner.

This helps the Japanese woman a lot in case of re-marriage, as the ex-husband cannot interfere into the new family's life.
He is gone..and the new husband takes over as father.
Children therefore are not between a biological father and a new husband of their mother.

A violent criminal ex-husband cannot follow his ex-wife claiming rights regarding children...see the other side of the coin...ok?

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It must be noticed, that the ex-husband and father has no obligations anymore...there is no legal way to force him to do anything related to his past, not for the ex-wife, not for the children...he is gone, disappeared, considered like being dead.

It's different here in Japan and much less complicated than in USA.
I think however, it's fair, or at least not unfair.

I just posted this to show, that different countries have often totally different views about the same problem.

There is no 'good' solution about all these divorce, custody etc. stuff...
however I find the Western laws rather biased towards women and very complicated to execute legally. Western laws are not 'somewhere in the middle' considering both, men and women.

Here in Japan there is no child-support, maybe legally an extreme view... on the other side of the ocean, there is child-support, you pay, but the wife is using the child-support for alcohol or otherwise for herself...she has no obligation to use this money for the children and as father you cannot do anything against that. And if you cannot pay, even in case you are sick and jobless you are in jail...legally the other extreme side.

We had here cases in Japan, still under old law, where a wife, after being married 30 years was kicked out and had nothing...indeed...nothing. All was in the name of the husband.

On the other side we know about stories in UK, where a wife was married for a few months, cheating the husband and was claiming successfully alimony past 30 years after divorce.

We have no spousal rape law here in Japan, such a crime does not exist.

On the other side, why should a husband be a sex-offender, because he, as a drunken husband, had sex with his drunken wife, who was recalling her consent some weeks later because she found a new lover and was looking for a lucrative divorce?

A drunken wife cannot give consent to her drunken husband - to recall her consent is not even a legal requirement - it's spousal rape, says the US-law. - I think, it's a bad law... totally open for misuse against men.

I would never marry an US-woman, because I do not know how to trust her even if she had the best intentions - no law will assist me there against wrong allegations. But here in Japan I am married since over 30 years. Troublefree.

I can hardly imagine anyone here thinks that. I can also hardly imagine anyone believes that there shouldn't have been reprecussions for your ex for holding a knife to your throat and hurting you physically. Being against spousal rape laws does not translate into a man has the right to do anything he wants to his wife.

Thanks a lot, exactly my point.
This is what I said:
This is the answer I go, but what has this to do with what I wrote above?
Even without any relation to rape, any forced situation AT KNIFE-POINT must be already seen as a criminal action, regardless if rape, robbery, wife, unknown person...

OK, see the other side, you are the father, the children are with you with full custody rights, your ex-wife in jail, violent, jobless, does not give a shit for the children, you paid all her debits...
and you are now back to a new life, have a nice wife, who is accepting you and the children, and the ex-wife, released from jail, is showing up all the time, demanding to visit the children, is calling them by phone, is writing letters to them...even such letters, that she is the mother and they should never accept your wife to act as a mother for them...etc.. what will you do?

In Japan it is easy, the ex-wife is out...it's you, who decides that...even if she shows up with money...or in tears... if you say, she is out, then she is out. No law will be on her side.

You got the idea? There is a clear cut between past and future in the Japanese law - to start again, undisturbed.
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You cannot have both - it is difficult to find a legal solution for divorced parents and their children, as there is always somebody complaining about how unfair it is...etc...
In Japan, yes, usually the wife takes the children and has full responsibility for them.
On the other side, there is no child-support, which might bring some mothers into serious money troubles.

There is no right for visitation, either. Most divorced couples find the 'go- between' solution, the father pays for his visits.

A typical support for 1 to 2 children per month is considered to be about USD 300,- to USD 800,- for an ordinary wage-earner.

Visitation rights are sometimes seen as a critical point in Western law in case the ex-husband/ex-wife has a violent or criminal history.

Legally seen in Japan, the person, who has the custody rights (I think, over 85 percent this is the mother) has the right to refuse any contacts regarding children living with her with the ex-partner, including contact information like address, phone number, email...etc.

Be aware, that parents rights are very strong in Japan compared to the West. No anti-spanking laws and such BS talk.
After divorce, parents rights of father/mother will move fully to the person who has custody.

Yes, even if the father wants to pay child-support and the mother is refusing to accept money and says NO to meetings, then it is NO.

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Spousal rape does not exist in Japanese law, also the domestic violence law is weak. Some wild quarrels in marriage at home will not be considered as something, which might psychologically damage beyond repair the soul of a married couple.

For severe mistreatment and assault (I read something here about: AT KNIFE-POINT) of/ against your partner (regardless to gender), you will face a criminal court - the charge of 'rape' will be excluded only if they are legally married.

All in all, more evidence in Japan is required than in the West, if a married woman is accusing her husband in domestic violence issues...to say 'we were drunk, he raped me while I was sleeping - arrest him' is considered as bullshit talk by a psychotic women (we have also such women here in Japan) and not taken seriously.

Generally, in Japan, family laws and courts are not really much supportive to overdemanding...I think, overdemanding is a good word.