We often get around to talking of what is manly; what is manhood.

A man is defined in large part by what he does. His Integrity as a man can be expressed in what he does; how he responds to the choices put before him; what choices he seeks out.

To me a man who deliberately connives or conspires or trains himself to defend and support that which is wrong or people that do wrong, has thrown his Integrity, his completeness, to the wind. he is un-manly.

The single profession that does this to the full is the Legal Profession.

Lawyers distort and cover up the Truth. To 'make it' in the legal profession one must defend the guilty and the wrongdoer and defend bad law as though there was no difference between good and bad. No lawyer becomes well-heeled or famous defending the innocent. The thieves have the money.

One sometimes hears that of all the scientists that have ever lived, 90% are alive today. Mostly they seek facts about the world. The physical truths.

There are more law students in college right now, moving toward graduation, than all the lawyers that are alive now and have ever lived before.

Many are men. Most are women.

They will damage Truth more than ever. They will do more wrong than what has gone before.

Well, if I ever get in trouble, I hope I have a good lawyer. :P

law has indeed become a very poor profession..

It is because of all the laws and lawyers, that your chances of getting "in trouble" are so high..

for the sake of argument:

Are lawyers a "necessary evil"? When people have conflict, a mediator of some sort is often required. Lawyers perhaps are more like mercenaries than peacemakers?

Yip, They make their living on trouble!! They need it!

Nothing new here.
Shakespeare reflected a similar opinion in several of his original "commentaries on the human condition"

A man in a tight spot needs money "on credit, to transport crap that people don't need, to a "market" where the value can be gouged.

He has no choice but to go to an evil Jew moneylender and consent to agree on terms set.

An "act of god", or perhaps the employment of incompetent employees, fucks up his big plans
to "make a killing" on the market-based on his "big ideas" and other peoples actual risk and labor.

Now he has to "pay up". (Too bad he didn't invest in "insurance")

Some bitch, disingenuously representing her "credentials", weasels him out of the legitimate contract he made with the [i]evil Jew moneylender[i] by convoluted logic.

He skates on ALL his obligations to "the bank" (and it's other current and potentially subsequent clientèle), to the retailers expecting the goods, to the wives, sons, and daughters of the freight transport company workers.


And this bitch "lawyer" is supposed to be the hero?
Was Shakespeare more clever than modern *college professors that invoke his "commentary"?

*grades 7-9 in American private high schools, (especially one-gender schools) with standardized and enforceable consequences for shoddy academic efforts, and non labor union teachers.


and

What I think is un-manly, is when a man gives up his constitutional rights and his balls to some king shit politician in order to acquire False salvation!!!
If I've said it wants I'll say it again, Politicians can't be trusted!!!

I unfortunately have had recourse to three lawyers during my life and each one has duded me

the only thing they live for is to send out invoices to suckers (clients)

Quote:

To me a man who deliberately connives or conspires or trains himself to defend and support that which is wrong or people that do wrong, has thrown his Integrity, his completeness, to the wind. he is un-manly.

There is nothing in the above idea that cannot be said of a woman, and so a woman that can overcome the above flaw can be manly too?

I agree a man must be judged by deeds, but they must be based on overcoming fears. A male must overcome fears so often that he can do so when the time warrants.

Some young men overcome fears in X-Sports and the like, then harp on those attention getting fears and do not move on. Adrenalin then becomes a drug which makes choices for him as surely as another drug can.

Once a man has overcome the fear of death (in small measure or large) he must move on to dealing with the fear of being alone, standing against all, being bored and learning things that are not of immediate interest to him. These are others fears that a young men can avoid on his way to dancing with death and getting attention for it.

Most women never overcome there endless fears of death and instead rationalize them into being smart in avoiding them. In most cases they turn things that are not dangerous into ones, or do the tempest in a tea pot actions, as nature has almost always made women into cowards. Momma's boys, manginas etc. usually learn to be this way by their dominating fearful mother or genes and thus turn to guile and fame for status to make them appealing to women and cover over there unmanliness.

To sum up:

1. Over come fears so often that you can do so when life demands it.

2. Overcome fears that have no outward glory and or adrenalin rush, like defeating the fear of being alone (or if it be the case of being around many people in say giving speeches), studying boring subjects that you need to be a well rounded man, and overcome things like face saving ego and pride in not cleaning a toilet etc. The list of these quiet battles are endless and can keep you busy until you set your skills to task in a battle like the one we face here.

First overcoming fears and then using these skills when the situation demands is the mark of a man, and if a woman can overcome some fears it still tends to be only in some areas and is not matched with the steady hand of when to use it. They in other words overplay what they can do, so as to prove something like a immature male does in boasting what fears he has overcome. In this way women can only hope to be a mere boy in trying to be like a man.

Like in the bible the road to being an effete is easy and down hill, and the road to being a man is the high road and many take a life time to overcome them.

The reason males are found at the top and bottom IQs is they have the trait of bravery in the low IQs males, which allows them to overcome smarter academic men who are cowards. The smarter you become the more fears present themselves and the more one feels one is not cannon fodder.

We are all cannon fodder and as it says below no man is smarter than all of us. The low IQ men bring up the rear of intelligence, which means they are not that stupid, as they would fall and die off. They fill a niche in nature for being both intelligent enough and brave enough to trump men who have great ideas but because they are to fearful, to say or act on them, are doomed to the life equal to the moron with no great ideas. What is the differnce between such a morron and such a brainy coward? Nothing, as they are the same in nature's or God's eyes.

Women make up the middle in IQ, for to lead or bring up the rear are both risky, so they hide in the reeds of life and call themselves subtle.

I do not comprehend this.

If he does not fear, but acts anyway, is he not to be judged as manly?

Or is it that it is only when he fears and acts that he is to be judged a manly?

And if he completes his deeds and still fears, is he to be judged not manly?

Or is he to be judged as manly who acts only in order to overcome his fears?

If he has overcame his fears, is he no longer able to be judged as manly?

Is he only a judged as manly when he has overcome his fears?

Am I not manly, or to be judged as manly; I who have faced other men in battle and feared; who defeated my enemy in battle and still fears; who respects and embraces his capacity to fear as part of his humanity; who does not 'overcome' my fears but puts them to service?

I do not judge a man on his fears.

I see Truth as a far more determining factor. It is the same issue with women. She cannot be womanly when conniving against Truth.

A man cannot be manly without being a truth-loving, truth seeking human. Even if fearless. Nor can a woman be womanly. While they may have distinct and different characteristics which distinguish one from the other, they share a common basis upon which their Integrity depends. Neither can express their Integrity if they reject Truth. A Trunk of a tree is more important and defining than the branches. The branches of whatever shape and charcteristic need the sap that somes up the trunk.

In any deed and/or in seeking/abiding by the Truth, one needs to ask the question, 'Who does the Grail serve'?

A fear can be clearly seen by the fact that almost all women will regard it as such, and many to most men will regard it as such as well (even more importantly based on the men though). You may no longer fight men in the jungle, but you know and I know that one must still deal with fears to do as you did. Dealing with fear is not based on not having it anymore, but overcoming each time you must do so for a purpose.

For a effete man to gossip to another and another and undermine another and bring him down he has no fear to be overcome. He is skilled, but is not a manly.

To humble yourself before truth when in a debate is manly for you may loss the debate and have your pride suffer, but you show you are strong to face pride and defeat it for truth and defeat the fear of looking bad to others taking part who are insecure and feel admitting defeat is opening your armour and surrendering on all counts. When in fact it is saying I will take your turth and add it to my own, thus making your real inner armour all the more formidable -to stronger men at least.

To battle in the clouds on the many issue & versions of truth and never give in is done every day on the philosophical & theological forums. It takes no fear to overcome from the safety of your chair, and because one can never change you can claim to hold on to truth or your high ideals. No one can prove otherwise as all one has to do is never admit failure. Simply they remain untested not undefeated.

Truth does trump honor, but it is awash in posturing and thus is not as useful and as straightforward as Honor. Real men can agree on honor to some degree and thus some measure can be gauged.

Honor, in the male forum, is a higher bar for it needs one to overcome many fears and loss of face in the effete world of priorities. Being a man merely means being in the process of overcoming fears. So my son may be afraid of big dogs, but if he still pushes to pat one, he thus overcomes it and he is acting manly. If this becomes a process which he uses constantly with new fears he is moving towards manhood. If he says I don't need to pat dogs and it is stupid and macho to equal patting a dog with manlyhood then he is acting like a woman or weak effete man.

For someone to have the genes to not fear dogs, there is no fear to overcome and it is not the same thing. Yet if this same person gets bit (and then jumps on the horse next time) by patting a new big scare dog they will be showing their ovecoming fear and get credit.

The vast majority of persons pursue some kind of truth which matches their desires. So it will be impossible to agree on truth and thus leave no way to gauge what a man is. Which many who fall short would love to happen, as this is why they deconstruct it so often.

With no gauge boys cannot learn as well, for they are unlikely to see each brave act their father or male role modal has done. He will only be able to hear the bragging of boys and medusas and compare that to the stories of a true brave man. How does a boy tell the difference? He can't with words, but if there are many storng men around that agree on the measuring stick the boys can learn for he is bound to see acts of bravey, have impressive men listen and humble themsleves before others which the boy will have never seen his father do so in his whole life. "Why does my father of stone act so humble to this old vet?" "My father never acts this way to famous people, rich people and sexy women!"

So by men coming together boys can learn to see bravey and honor and thus see the real truth amongst all the mass of pretenders of understanders of "Truth".

Aye. The quest to prove "manliness" is strong in many young men. After a certain point, a man may feel he has "nothing to prove" anymore..

I often feel this way, but I forget that there are perhaps other things I may have to prove, or I will forever been judged manly be the measuring stick of the 18-year olds and feel more distant from my own age group!!

I am not sure if "manliness" is so relevant after the age of 40 or so, perhaps "maturity" is a more relevant measure, and can be more equal a measure of men and women alike..

As a young man, most of my daring deeds where not regarded as bravery, but as stupidity..

I used to wonder why it was regarded better when a person overcame great fear to pull off a stunt or deed than when someone just jumped off the lip striaght into the bowl without thinking..

As long as the stunt gets done, it matters not surely if the jackass has done it following great personal fear-fighting or not?

Brave or not, I have never done a bungy jump, much as I have been told to do many times, because, quite simply, such stunts dont demand skills and are soley a test of fear surely?

Logically speaking, I dont see the point of taking unnecessary risks, when there is no glory or thrill to be gained from it..

I can understand the 'pressure' to 'prove' oneself. I have to remind myself, too, from time to time, and ask myself "who is this person who demands that I prove myself in his eyes. Does he measure up to me?". Then I rebuke myself for thinking that anyone should measure up to me. I have to turn my eye to a measure that is outside and above me and him.

But one gets tired of impertinent youngsters.

There are not many young men in the movement, seems to be something that they dont consider, till they have been fucked over in divorce etc..

No doiubt this is mainly due to the way the state indoctrinates them from their youngest years, but it is a serious problem for the movement..

The few young men that there are seem to not be active in the real sense of it..

I think the fact that many MRA's dont make it easy for young men, largely, I would suggest, because many MRA's dont understand the difference between a 20 year old and a 45 year old man..

And they still think in a largely feminised way, as most "midlife" MRA's are ex male feminists..

Which is why I often think that the current crop of 18-25 year olds often have more in common with their grandfathers/great grandfathers generation!