Reversing the burden of proof

**bola** · 8th-September-2006

This is what worries me: that man-haters will be able to weaponize the law-system:

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CAE81.htm

With the demise of old-style sexism, there has been a rise in new-style moralism, which has dangers of its own. (...)

One result of this has been the erosion of important legal safeguards. It's a common view that courts are loaded against women - (...) In fact, if anything the opposite is true. The Home Office is constantly lamenting the 'justice gap' between reports of rape and convictions - and as a spokesman said yesterday, it has made a number of changes 'to put victims' needs first and to make it easier for cases to get to trial and secure convictions' (4).

These changes include REVERSING THE BURDEN OF PROOF. Rather than the prosecutor having to prove that the woman did not consent, new laws mean that the defendant must prove that the woman did consent. The alleged rapist has to show that he had taken 'reasonable steps' to ensure that the woman had consented to sex. The very basis of a fair trial - the idea of innocence until proven guilty - is called into question. Indeed, the assumption of 'guilty until proven innocent' has become common in discussions about rape cases. Newspapers often talk about 'the rape victim', missing out the usual qualifying 'alleged' and presenting the guy as guilty as charged.

**Marx** · 8th-September-2006

Precisely, it's becoming a very scarey world we live in. There was a thread on CT4M not that long ago about men having to look to the ground in the presense of women. It was set in the future. How long in the future remains to be seen.

**bola** · 8th-September-2006

All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman. -- Catherine MacKinnon

As I said to westminster the other day, you'd expect this woman to be in a mental institution, but she's a Professor of Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_MacKinnon
http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.p...eminist_Quotes

**myce** · 9th-September-2006

This is very disturbing. The feminists are all upset that people might hold a woman partially responsible for her own actions. If you leave your car stereo in plain sight and the door unlocked someone might steal it. Likewise if you get sloppy drunk then you are putting yourself at risk for unwanted or regretted sexual activity. But according to some people that is not the case:

When the new laws were drawn up it was suggested that a woman wouldn't be able to consent if she was drunk (5) - and by implication, that a man should wait for her to sober up before taking her at her word.

But, what if HE is drunk also? Then he is responsible for his actions, and HER actions too. Even if she pressures him into having sex then he could be held liable for rape.

All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman. -- Catherine MacKinnon

DOH! WTF. So then if a man pays a dominatrix a day's wages to beat him for an hour then he is oppressing her by taking advantage of her victim status, right?

**gwallan** · 9th-September-2006

Quote from myce

But, what if HE is drunk also? Then he is responsible for his actions, and HER actions too. Even if she pressures him into having sex then he could be held liable for rape.

You are correct. Two people are drunk. She initiates sex. She can later claim to have been raped. The perfect feminist law. It enables the eternally guilty male to be entrapped and punished at the whim of any female.

**bas24** · 9th-September-2006

Quote from karl

There was a thread on CT4M not that long ago about men having to look to the ground in the presense of women. It was set in the future. How long in the future remains to be seen.

Can you post a link to this ? i've just checked the CT4M website and couldnt find it.

**bola** · 9th-September-2006

I don't think it is even necessary for you to have sex with anybody. This law will also make it easier to get somebody convicted on a deliberately false accusation. As long as you don't have an alibi, how are you going to prove it didn't happen?

And remember what I said in one of the other threads, with this law hanging over your head, as a man you don't want to upset any woman or make her very angry. After all you never know what she might do. It will make it difficult for a man to stand his ground in a conflict.

In many countries rape is also illegal within the marriage, so you'd better not challenge your estranged wife for custody. You'd have to proof she consented to having sex with you the night before. And she says, she didn't. Ba-Bye!

Realize that if you are convicted of rape the woman will likely receive a compensation from the government. That's like having a price on your head. And you don't want to meet one of those women who'd like to bring a man to his knees just for the thrill of it.

All of this can happen to any man any time, you don't even actually have to have sex with anybody.

If these laws are passed the feminists will have literally weaponized the legal-system.

**Marx** · 9th-September-2006

Bas24, I'll have a scoot around... I'm going back a long time though when I saw that...
Bola, I 100% agree with your post. It's almost like a pro-gay movement. Make men so scared to go near a woman that if they do want sex they'll turn to other men instead.

**Dr David Banner** · 9th-September-2006

It means that WAS will become common
...women avoidance strategies... That is inevitable there are men already who dont let a women unaccompanied into their office as well as new surveillance techniques.Women will find men staying away.Some will say "great" some may realise too late that they will have problems from this as well...A doctor, a plumber who wont go into the house of a woman on her own etc...
Karl that is a sinister thought what a scary future for straight men...
this crisis is getting worse...

I am back to this addictive site for therapy I am just after catching a glimpse of the ghastly
"wife swap" on C4...The women (guests) laying down the law to the husbands, and the husbands doing meekly what they are told .Of course its the media (professional liars) We know all is edited to keep the feminist agenda going. After the obnoxious articles in the press, the oppressive situation at my workplace.There is no escapefrom feminist law and it looks set to get worse.
Women are ruling over us in every area of our lives. This stifling misandrist society is ASKING for trouble.
I would be better dead than to live any more of this hence the mass suicides of men for the last 25years.
I dont have many answers.I ask in sincerity
WHAT THE HELL CAN WE DO?

**bola** · 9th-September-2006

Quote from Brad

WHAT THE HELL CAN WE DO?

I don't know. If you talk to other men about this, then they'll probably shrug their shoulders, while they sip their beer and continue to watch football.

Be careful who you date.

**Yan Yan** · 9th-September-2006

Quote from bola

I don't know. If you talk to other men about this, then they'll probably shrug their shoulders, while they sip their beer and continue to watch football.

Be careful who you date.

Defeatist talk, Gentlemen!

A good friend of mine returns to England at least once a year to visit his ageing mother. He looks up his old mates. They sip beer, watch football and play snooker. Nobody ever talks about sex because it's not a polite subject - just as religion & politics were taboo a generation ago.

Dinosaurs were stupid. Homo sapiens is inventive.

**bola** · 9th-September-2006

It's easy for you to talk Yan Yan, you don't have to go out with these women and get a signed affidavit every time you have sex with them :-)

Also there is the question: do women actually have to prove that you had sex with them? Or can they point their finger at every passer-by?

The reason I'm frustrated with the attitude of other men is that because of their inertia a lot of innocent men are going to get burnt. It would be better if men protested the dismantling of their civil rights and the reduction of their role in society.

O, yeah, I'm sure we'll survive. We are indeed inventive.

**Cowhead418** · 9th-September-2006

They want to increase the rate of convictions? Then make the penalties much harsher for false accusations. If you make it so that women won't falsely accuse men, then you will see a substantial increase in the rate of convictions. It's really quite simple.

Oh, and for this law:

**bola** · 13th-September-2006

Talking about Kathleen Parker...

If this goes on, there will not only be a marriage strike but a date strike as well.
http://tinyurl.com/evhw9

**Yan Yan** · 13th-September-2006

It's easy for you to talk Yan Yan, you don't have to go out with these women and get a signed affidavit every time you have sex with them :-)

No I don't bola, accepted. But I still have stay alert in some sexual encounters. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
And BTW I'm not picking on you personally. If you check I'm backing you up all over the place but I've been lazy on these user pages.

My post about defeatism was a clumsy attempt at a wake-up call. Look at my age. Do you think that I built my escape tunnel with a silver spoon? Yes, it's easy for me to talk now, but can you imagine how much shit I had to wade through? My freedom was bought from suffering. The good thing that came out of it - I was labelled a troublemaker, ripe for early retirement. That's why I'm here in the East.
If I'm sitting pretty now, why do I bother? You answered the question below.

I've been posting on men's/civil rights long before, during and after my expulsion from Femidom. If it would help, I could tell you a long story about my forefathers' suffering under the matriarchy or about my travels around the world. But I don't think it would.

Back to the point. Do you get Asian news? A drunken slut Filipina bar-girl somewhere up north has accused some American Marines of rape. She's a hooker and they are morons. But it's become a 'cause celebre' because the media is hungry for western news, and politics are involved. Ordinary people understand that the girl is just an opportunist but they wish her luck. When she filed the case she had nothing to lose and maybe those rich 'foreigners' would pay her off. Men tread carefully wherever they go. That case is all about simple economics but your example of the Gorman case beggars belief.
The feminazi got there ahead of us and they anticipate every single move. We should bow our heads in shame.

The reason I'm frustrated with the attitude of other men is that because of their inertia a lot of innocent men are going to get burnt. It would be better if men protested the dismantling of their civil rights and the reduction of their role in society.

Yes bola. I'm frustrated too. For f**ks sake why don't they listen?

If they won't listen, you'd better look out for yourself. Then it will be easy for you to say also.

PS Why isn't this on 'General'?