I will ignore your libertarian straw man. I'm just opining a preference and diagnosing an attitude.

To clarify: I use the term 'politically correct' in the Marxist sense: dogmatically following the party line in order to reach the Goal. This is one step removed from taking offense at those who don't.

Besides, what you're saying is akin to saying that discriminating racists is the worst form of discrimination.

Of course, one could also say that the worst form of intolerance is not tolerating those who don't tolerate intolerance on publicly accessible political forums.

I too am disappointed that the post over Percy speaking up is closed.

Julie says.



Then Bob says..

Quote:

You know, Julie, I don't think its up to females to tell men when to "behave like a gentleman." I don't know about FFFF, but I wouldn't take that very well. It comes across as classic feminist misandry.

You know Bob, I didn't tell him what to do. I asked.

But it is just never going to be enough is it? It is always going to be a gender issue with some of you men.

I could have made something pretty worthwhile last year. But that too wasn't good enough because some men in NZ just can't bring themselves to accept a female in a position of power.

My mentor has done soh much for the movement against feminism. So much more than any man in the MRM in NZ has been able to do.

Yeah, I know your answer. She is a woman and she can do this because feminism has power that you wonderful men are going to destroy.

Even though she is upset that I don't want to work with men because of this .... she understands my stand.

You want the movement? You have it. I am sick of this crap. And I am sick of hearing it while I put myself out there. It just doesn't end. Not even my life would be good enough.

Quote: Yeah, I know your answer. She is a woman and she can do this because feminism has power that you wonderful men are going to destroy.

Think of the power that could be had if we unite....yes men and women, feminists and masculists. Some say "it can't" be done. I say why the hell not? It's happening as we speak. I'm here. You're here. There are other folks out there just like us, Julie, who see hope and see a better future ahead. People like you, and me, and Kim, and Kelly...yeah we're women, but that doesn't mean we can't do something to help men. In fact, we're in an advantageous position to help men. We can get other women to listen to us much more readily than can a man. Why? Because we're women, and women listen to other women, just like men listen to other men. We can bridge the gap....we can make it happen, Julie. You're already doing this. And I think you deserve a hell of a lot of credit for your efforts.

Most feminists are incredibly closed minded. Go to your favorite feminist forum and start talking about mens rights, see what happens.

I don't have a "favorite feminist forum"...never posted on any feminist forums. But I have posted quite a bit on Yahoo Answers "gender and women's studies" forum, and guess what? I have talked about men's issues, and the funny thing is, I observed this: women really listened. Not only did they listen, but they agreed with what I said. But sadly, when the same words were spoken by men, these words did not fall on well-receiving ears. There are probably at least few reasons for this (at least from my own observation): 1) when statements were made about men's issues, they often, in the same sentence even, found a way to insult or belittle women. And 2) I'm a woman, and women do tend to listen to other women more readily than they do men, particularly when they are not belittled in the process. And, having been a member there (and a leader and regular contributor), I had developed a following, of sorts. Young women who seemed to look up to me, and respected what I had to say.

The problem I see with this forum, is that in promoting men's rights there seems to be an under-current of anti-female sentiment. It's not just anti-feminism. There really are a few bad apples here who obviously dislike women very strongly, and their words are almost enough to drive away not only women, but other men as well.

That's a start.

Oh I have no doubt that women listen to women more than they do men. However, Yahoo answers is not a feminist site, try your experiment at feministing.com for example. Bet you they will ban you in a hurry.

Could be why you got different mileage.
Well, most of the men here have lost their children and been destroyed thanks to the "sugar and spice" nature of women. What would you expect? Actually, you see more man bashing on your TV than you see woman bashing here...think about that for a minute.

You do have me intrigued with the idea of seeing what would happen if I did post on a feminist website regarding the issues of men. Might make for an interesting and eye-opening learning experience for me. Would they ban me? Would they listen? Would it depend greatly (or not at all) on my approach? I am curious to know. You may be entirely correct in your predictions. But then again, I am a woman...and I understand that to get other women to listen, it takes a bit of tact and diplomacy. How far that would actually get me, remains to be seen. But your idea inspires me to want to find out! What websites would you suggest? Is there one in particular?

The only one that comes to mind is feministing.com.

http://www.feministing.com/

Give it a shot, I think you will find that the people here are much more open to opposing ideas than the people there. Still though, feel free to search around for other feminist sites to experiment with so that you get to be the one to choose the site for your test. Heck, test more than one site.

Heck, maybe they will listen to you, maybe you do know just how to talk to them. It is worth a shot.

Indeed. The tolerant man is a gentleman.

The gentleman agrees to differ.

The gentleman considers the validity of differring viewpoints.

The gentleman does not claim intellectual or moral superiority.. Period..

The gentleman does not claim to be correct on the basis of nothing but his own claim.

The gentleman does not profess to know the unknowable..

The gentleman does not bully or threaten or try to rally support from similar bullies. Or indeed, encourage bullying and intolerance.

Failure to follow these principles does more to give the MRM a bad name than anything else.

A few folk on here seem to think ungentlemanly conduct of the above kind is acceptable as a means of stomping down on differences of opinion they dont like and driving it out.

There is a bullying clique at work here, some subtle, some not so, and it needs reigning in or it will severely limit the development of ideas.

Yeah Spot on!

.

Well, Tera says she is thinking about doing this experiment. I would be most interested in the results.