New thread for the rape issue

[sealion]

I think a seperate thread is needed for the rape issue .
Where do we begin with it ?
There is no doubt that it is a foul crime ,in my opinion ,2nd only to murder ( btw ,men can be raped too ) . There is also , in my opinion ,no doubt that some women play on society's disgust with rape . It is known that there are many false allegations of rape ,inspired only by spite . In my opinion any woman who falsly accuses a man of rape deserves to be impisined for double the amount that the "attacker" could have got .
I suggest that this thread asks ,"what is rape ?" and "Why is it considered 2nd only to murder?" .
My post recieved a few comments ,I take no offence at ay of them ,because I know none was meant . As far as I am concerened everyone has a right to an opinion .
All I ask , is keep this thread sensible . Some people on here , may have had friends who have been a victim of this crime .

[Yan Yan]

I think a seperate thread is needed for the rape issue .
Where do we begin with it ?
There is no doubt that it is a foul crime ,in my opinion ,2nd only to murder ( btw ,men can be raped too ) . There is also , in my opinion ,no doubt that some women play on society's disgust with rape . It is known that there are many false allegations of rape ,inspired only by spite . In my opinion any woman who falsly accuses a man of rape deserves to be impisined for double the amount that the "attacker" could have got .
I suggest that this thread asks ,"what is rape ?" and "Why is it considered 2nd only to murder?" .
My post recieved a few comments ,I take no offence at ay of them ,because I know none was meant . As far as I am concerened everyone has a right to an opinion .
All I ask , is keep this thread sensible . Some people on here , may have had friends who have been a victim of this crime .

Good on yer Sealion!
Yes, nuff said. We can respect that.
Can we also spare a thought for victims of false accusation and those who have been blackmailed or manipulated by the threat of accusation? How far shall we widen the field? How about those who have a partner with previous negative experiences?

Second question first: "Why is rape considered second only to murder?" Quick answer - it's not. On a global and historical scale the crime of rape slides freely up and down. In highly patriarchal societies (converse doesn't exist) it was considered along with theft. You could just as likely get hung for stealing a sheep. Feminists love the outrage that the 'rape' word provokes and use the theatrical illusion (it's all done with smoke and mirrors) to pretend that the 'dreaded patriarchy' is alive and well. Real rape still exists but it's relatively rare. Abuse of the rape word does great disservice to the real victims.

What is rape?
Depends who you are and what you want to make of it. Let's take two extremes:
A nun, covered from head to foot with only her face showing, is busy working with the poor and destitute. While the feeble poor are distracted, a bandit drags her into an alley and has his evil way at knifepoint. That's rape.
A hooker in a 'cocktail gown', who's drinking heavily, picks up a guy in a bar and drags him off to an hotel room. Sometime during sex she decides that the price she quoted is too low. She says stop and he doesn't. - That's rape.
If you want something in-between, search Kathleen Parker's story about the guy who languishes in jail because his wife found a new boyfriend and needed to dump him somewhere where he wouldn't make trouble. A new variety - spousal rape for Christ's sake! Anything is possible in the wonderful world of rape! Is anybody following the Duke Lacrosse scandal? Curiouser and curiouser.
Rape is evil Sealion, agreed. Especially when it's close to home. But the playing of the rape card for political advantage is merely sickening.

[Marx]

I personally think that a multi-layer defition needs to be created. Currently there is virtually nothing to distinguish between a woman being raped in a cruel manner at knife-point and a woman regretting an encounter (or needing an alibi for the suspicious husband).
I think the word rape needs to be disregarded in the latter sense and anything that 'was' conscenual be considered so (consenual). I cannot go purchase an item and then take the shop to court for selling me something I later regretted, or to make my wife believe that I was duped by a salesman. But if I'd been robbed at knife point and had money stolen... well, that's robbery! I can't take proceedings against the shop for my decision.

If the legal system would start using the word in it's proper form, then yes rape is a terrible, horrific crime. However, I only know two people who have claimed to be raped. Remembering, I'm 30 now, in 30 years I've happened upon two people. The one was someone I didn't know at all (until the rape claim). I was at college and a rumour went around that a girl had been raped on a carpark just opposite the college grounds.
That turned out to be bunk, it was given as an excuse for missing classes. And it was more than a rumour as it was in the local papers.
The other was someone who claimed to be asleep when it happened. There was no knife or gun, no beating her into submission, nothing alike. Just a drunken group of people meeting up and one going too far. I don't know the "ins & outs" of either scenario, but the word "rape" doesn't really sit-well with me in either of them.

[pjanus]

I am reluctant to comment on this subject as unless one has been subjected to this crime (even as retired Police officer) then you cannot know the true depth of its harm. I believe it affects some more than others and will also depend on the type and particular circumstances of the offence.

That said, I have been searching my memory for genuine rape calls, that I have attended during my carreer. There are very few. This may be due to chance but I doubt it. Most false reports were as a result of arriving home late or an excuse for something. Others were for spite or as a means to an end. Quite a few of these reports are considered as doubtful i.e. they are not believed to be genuine but could not be proved or disproved if she maintained the allegation.

One of the last reports I have knowledge of was reported out of
embarrassment. She was sexually frustrated when her husband pleaded that he had to get up early for work. She left the house and used the wrong end of a hair spray can. The cap, of the hair spray, got stuck and she could not release it. She realised that she would have to attend the hospital and out of sheer embarrassment she reported that she had been attacked by a man who had used the hair spray to assault her. After receiving treatment she was interviewed and at this point she realised the enormity of what she was reporting and told the investgating officers the truth. I felt sorry for her but her actions could have had serious consequences. No real harm was done as she admitted her report was false within a short period of time

[Marx]

I wonder, with regards the above, if these false allegations are reported back to the hospitals as being false, or whether they're retained on file as being legit.....

[pjanus]

I wonder, with regards the above, if these false allegations are reported back to the hospitals as being false, or whether they're retained on file as being legit.....

Police cannot disclose information of this nature to 'outside bodies'. There may be some circumstances where different organisations were collaborating, as in Police working with Social Services on Youth Offending, whereby certain information is exchanged. However, exhanges between the Police and Medical Profession is limited due to Patient Confidentiality.

I do not believe that there is any mechanism for what you describe above and I believe the Hospital would have to request this information. The only circumstances that I can see this happening is when it directly affects medical treatment.

[Marx]

So, in other words, a false claim of rape (or domestic violence, etc.) would remain on hospital records. And hence, any statistics would be completely useless to rely on, if say a feminist organisation were to claim that "hospital records showed xyz% of hospital visits by women for abc-situation"?

Hmmm

[Fred X]

Right- I'll add my views here

Sealion wrote:

what is rape ?

'What' indeed

Feminists would have you believe just about anything a man does to a woman is some form of rape

And it is, quite simply, bullshit

Someone being forced at knife/gunpoint/other threat to have sexual intercourse- Yes, that's rape

Two drunken people having a fumble under the sheets- no, that's not rape, yet feminists are trying very hard to use the sheer existence of alcohol as some sort of 'proof' that the woman didn't consent

(Notice how no such considerations are given to drunken men being fondled/molested)

Anyway- the term 'rape' needs a major overhaul- as there is too much simplicity attached to it

I would define the term to mean a sexual violation/assault on someone

And I would re-categorise it to include the crime of women kicking/kneeing men in the testicles regarded as a form of rape- or at the very least a crime which holds equal to greater punishment for the perpetrator

If a man is attacked in his privates, he may become infertile- and yet as it stands now- this is not only accepted, but encouraged

Often with comedic effect

Sealion wrote:

Why is it considered 2nd only to murder?

By whose authority/criteria do we accept such an assertion?

Also- like Yan Yan noted in his post, it really depends on your own viewpoint

I would say there are far worse crimes than rape that fall directly under murder

I.e.- a person who's now in a coma due to a battering by several thugs

I.e.- a person who's hands were chopped off for stealing

I.e.- a person who now has HIV due to the spite of another who already has such an illness

It is feminist hysteria which creates this feeling of 'rape being 2nd to murder'

And I detest the old phrase- 'rapists and murderers', as this slots 'rape' right up where it SHOULD NOT BE

In any case- those are my thoughts here

[Glitz]

I personally think that a multi-layer defition needs to be created. Currently there is virtually nothing to distinguish between a woman being raped in a cruel manner at knife-point and a woman regretting an encounter (or needing an alibi for the suspicious husband).

Why is that 'multilayer-layer'? Simply put #1 IS, #2, ISN'T. Although I agree there should be first and second degree rape. The knife man in the bushes is premeditated but the guy who fails to stop half way though because the girl changes her mind is not premeditated ans, like murder, should be treated differently.

That's not to say #2 is OK, it should still be treated seriously but its not the same as the bushes one.

Women who lie should get the SAME sentence as the man would have got.
This must be proven though, a failure to convict the alleged rapist is not proof of a lie. So the 'her word against his' would normally end in no convictions.

All parties should have their names banned from the media until the trial is concluded. Only the convicted party can have their names published except by consent.

This is what I would enact if I was your evil dictator.

[Marx]

Yeps.
What I had meant was that there are differing levels of sexual assault.
Looking at a woman's chest, along with her decision to flaunt her clevage for all to see, is not rape...mentally or otherwise.
Punching her lights out & banging into next week is rape.
If she regrets a sexual encounter, then it's void. If he molests her breasts then that is a different level,
Yeah, you get the idea.

Similarly, if i got into a small scuffle - it would be just that. If someone pulled a gun on me and shot, that would be a very different story.

[knight-errant]

Real rape (guy beating a woman senseless and forcefully penetrating her) is rare because - get this - men in general really don't want to hurt women!

I know! I know!

[injustice.mensaid]

I'd say Rape is worse than murder. with murder you are dead yes but that is the end. with rape it stays with you for the rest of your life.

Robert Whiston of Men's Aid has written a response to the consultation paper "Convicting Rapists and Protecting Victims - Justice for Victims of Rape"

http://www.mensaid.com/rape_vacuum.htm

[westminster]

I'm sorry, but being dead is definitely worse than being poked in a hole against your will, by someone else's willy. See, in one case you may be sore, angry, ego-aroused, afraid, ashamed, guilty and confused, but in the other case YOU ARE DEAD

Perhaps folks just aren't "evolved" enough, "sensitive" enough and "compassionate" enough to see the difference

I just read a story about a Man who received TWO CONSECUTIVE LIFE TERMS PLUS 30 YEARS! His crime? Surely he must have committed a series of heinous murders, preceded by lengthy torture and other horrors. Nope. All this guy did was "rape" a twelve year old girl that he lived with. Bear in mind that he was not the only adult in the household; the girls mother lived their too and wasn't charged with anything. So, in all likelihood, the kind of "rape" they are talking about is that of an adult Male SEDUCING a female POST-ADOLESCENT child. After a quick online search, I see that this story is not unique.

This seems surreal to me. Reality truly is stranger than fiction.

[westminster]

I'm sorry, but being dead is definitely worse than being poked in a hole against your will, by someone else's willy. See, in one case you may be sore, angry, ego-aroused, afraid, ashamed, guilty and confused, but in the other case YOU ARE DEAD

Perhaps folks just aren't "evolved" enough, "sensitive" enough and "compassionate" enough to see the difference

I just read a story about a Man who received TWO CONSECUTIVE LIFE TERMS PLUS 30 YEARS! His crime? Surely he must have committed a series of heinous murders, preceded by lengthy torture and other horrors. Nope. All this guy did was "rape" a twelve year old girl that he lived with. Bear in mind that he was not the only adult in the household; the girls mother lived their too and wasn't charged with anything. So, in all likelihood, the kind of "rape" they are talking about is that of an adult Male SEDUCING a female POST-ADOLESCENT child. After a quick online search, I see that this story is not unique.

This seems surreal to me. Reality truly is stranger than fiction.

[bola]

I'd say Rape is worse than murder. with murder you are dead yes but that is the end. with rape it stays with you for the rest of your life.

In that case any crime that doesn't kill the victim, is worse than murder. The solution is simple. When you rape somebody, kill them afterwards to ease the suffering.