Quote from bachelor tom

I really don't understand how feminists can make an argument about anatomy. Sexual reproduction is the usual system in biology (as opposed to asexual). In mammals the delivery of sperm to ova is done by physically inserting the male organ into the female.

Ironically, feminists are more interested in replacing nature's system with technological procedures (test-tube babies etc). This is classic "guy stuff", using our tools to modify the material world.

The politics of mating are complex and worth discussing. But if feminists want to stop breeding altogether they should be honest about it instead of slagging men.

If you look at the discussion through the lens of female sexual power (as the feminists do), it's real easy to understand them. Understanding them gives us insight into their arguments' weaknesses. Women and men are different from mere animals in that we have moral volition. We can choose to rape or not to rape. Since a major part of a woman's self-value is her ability to attract, she considers this part of her power as a human being. We all want to have power over our lives, and women -- being more sexual than men (in my opinion) -- exercise that power by granting or denying sex as they please. So when someone rapes a woman, they're denying her that ability to grant or withhold sex at her option. She may have enjoyed her power in the form of sexual manipulation and narcissism, or she may have enjoyed it in less devious ways (such as raising her value to potential marriage suitors through supposed virginity). That's why feminists harp on and on about rape all the time: once they no longer have the ability to exercise power through granting or denying sex, it's like they've got nothing left.

Never does it seem to occur to some of these women (the straight ones, anyway) that they lose sexual power by being self-centered, bitter, and manipulative bitches to men. When no one is interested any longer in what such women have to offer (sexually), that's almost just as bad as having "the goods" stolen from those women via rape. It kind of explains why feminists want to outlaw and restrict pornography and prostitution; it devalues women. Feminists (and Victorian moralists, their conservative partners) want women to be prostitutes of a much higher value.

Quote from TERA

There is one power that both genders have when it comes to sex...and that's the right to say yes or no..

Maybe where you live - but in Post Weimar Kalifornia the government punishes Men who practice abstinence - if the Womyn don't like it.

See - If a guy simply keeps it zipped, he is relatively exempt from the entire sexual manipulation / harassment scam - where it is the Womyn's Prerogative to decide whether romantic advances are acceptable, or criminal.

Now if he is a pathetic loser who couldn't get a 'date' with a doberman without paying for it up front, that is OK... So long as he still tries and gives them the opportunity to turn him down, or turn him in.

But If Men Abstain - this feminist 'right to choose' is denied, and that is just not acceptable to the power structure.

Ohso

Quote from novaseeker

A very interesting post!

But, I don't think that female sexual "power" really derives from the feminist deconstruction of heterosexual sex, as bizzare as that deconstruction was, at times.

I think female sexual power comes from biology: sperm are plentiful, eggs are not, so the egg-bearers have to be more choosy about which particular sperm they allow to fertilize their eggs. Women get far fewer shots at reproducing their genes than men do -- one repreoductive cycle is nine months, and in that time a man could (in theory and in a feral state) impregnate hundreds of women -- so women are choosy, not because they are pains in the ass, but because biology programs them to be choosy. Women are hypergamous (attracted to highest status mate they can find, generally) because this reproductive strategy is advantageous for them, as the bearers of only a rather imited number of eggs, and faced with far fewer opportunities to replicate their genes. Males are promiscuous (in a feral state, assuming no moral or social proscriptions of this) precisely because this reproductive strategy is advantageous for males, in that it maximizes the opportunity for a male's genes to be replicated.

Given that biological background, women will always be the "choosers" of whom they have sex with, and as such will always be the more powerful sex, when it comes to matters of sex. Feminism was quite wrong to assert that men have sexual power -- and smart feminists know better than that. In reality, some of the radical feminists like Dworkin hated biology as much as they hated men -- that is, they hated the way that the whole biological system evolved for women as they relate to men. But biology remains the main motivator for much human activity, and we shouldn't expect that to change any time soon.

We should expect it to change. Or we are nothing more than animals.

If women are allowed to be choosy and hypergamous then men should be allowed to be promiscuous. If not men need to be just as choosy as women and women need to do their financial part.

I think men actually need to be MORE choosy than women in many aspects. Loyalty is one area. An unfaithful man won't be deceiving a woman. A man with an unfaithful woman runs the risk of raising someone else's child. So men need to be MUCH MORE picky with loyalty.


I can't really see a woman being attracted to a man she has power over as Oni said.

Quote from TERA

I can't think of an act that makes two people more vulnerable to each other than sex. The vulnerability is mutual, not exclusive to one gender or one person. You bare your bodies, yes, but your souls, as well. Sex between two consenting adults who care deeply is a melding, and at the same time an exchange, that is beautiful and spiritual in nature.

Just my opinion.

Aaawww....how sweet...how lovely...how romantically idyllic.....how very girly.......I can still hear the violins playing on Cloud Nine.

GET REAL, MADAM! Leave this discussion to the men! FFS.....

Quote from TERA

I can't think of an act that makes two people more vulnerable to each other than sex.

I think that sex makes men vulnerable; to false rape claims, and involuntary fatherhood.

Quote from TERA

Sex between two consenting adults who care deeply is a melding, and at the same time an exchange, that is beautiful and spiritual in nature.

I just wish the exchange rate wasn't so low.