Quote from karl

I think the more appropriate question would be:
Why is it wrong to treat anyone fairly?

I'm not surprised, but that's not the question I asked. Furthermore, I think it is rude of you to ignore my question and derail it with questions of your own. Additionally, the question wasn't posed to you and I've made it clear that I think you owe me an apology! So, don't expect anything from me until you apologize, take that crap off my name and answer my question.

Why is it wrong to treat anyone unfairly?

Quote from westminster

I'm not surprised, but that's not the question I asked. Furthermore, I think it is rude of you to ignore my question and derail it with questions of your own. Additionally, the question wasn't posed to you and I've made it clear that I think you owe me an apology! So, don't expect anything from me until you apologize, take that crap off my name and answer my question.

Why is it wrong to treat anyone unfairly?

Why is it wrong to kill someone?
Why is it wrong to steal?

These are rhetorical questions designed to make you think. They are not to ignore your question or derail it etc. Neither was Karl's, his point is perfectly valid even if it escaped you. Indeed it was 50% chance my response would be the same.

The origins of morality is a topic which would fill many a thread (I know, Ive seen them) and there is no agreeable definitive answer.

Is there a point your trying to make? Because it looks to me your asking overly complex questions to derail the discussion. If you really dont know the answer I think you have a lot of soul searching to do...

Despite all this, and to try to be fair here is a simple answer.

Personally I want to be treated fairly, I do not want to be murdered, I dont want to have my property stolen. So I treat others as I expect, this is all I can do.

This is moral relativity at best, because society as a whole also collectively decides what is and is not 'moral', or in your worlds 'right' and 'wrong'.

If you are trying to trap me with some clever argument I wish you would proceed at a faster pace.

Let me ask you this... do YOU wish to be treated unfairly? Do you wish to be forced into a life that you do not wish?

Another common point of view is that morality is somewhat instinctive, and some people have these instincts more than others. Im not certain that's what I belive. What do you belive?

Do you wish to debate morality further, or is your point something else?

take that crap off my name and answer my question.

I appreciate this is not a question for me, but... what are you talking about?

-Additional Points of View: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

Quote from Glitz

...here is a simple answer.

Personally I want to be treated fairly... So I treat others as I expect, this is all I can do...

What do you belive?

I've edited out some of your post to keep it focused. If you really want answers to all of those questions, be patient and as you answer mine, I'll answer yours.

Alright, this may work. The point was, is there any way for people like you and me to work together? In order to demand Fair Treatment for Men, we need a Moral Basis for demanding it. Yours is that Women can't expect Men to treat them fairly, if they don't treat Men fairly. So, since Women want fair treatment from Men, then they should treat Men fairly. Is that about right? (answer that with a yes and then I'll tell you what I believe, otherwise, I'll want to clarify your position and then make mine clear to you)

Quote from westminster

Alright, this may work.

You really do have a plan don't you?!

The point was, is there any way for people like you and me to work together?

Lets find out.

In order to demand Fair Treatment for Men, we need a Moral Basis for demanding it. Yours is that Women can't expect Men to treat them fairly, if they don't treat Men fairly. So, since Women want fair treatment from Men, then they should treat Men fairly. Is that about right? (answer that with a yes and then I'll tell you what I believe, otherwise, I'll want to clarify your position and then make mine clear to you)

Not exactly, I belive it is right to treat people fairly, that is my moral stance. I cannot expect to be treated fairly if I do not want others to be the same, that would be hypocritical.

I am a MRA because society forces me to be. Its not that I want equality for men, i want equality for ALL. But women are already over represented so I fell I can leave society to look after any inequalities they may face. If this is not happening, I will stand up. If women were down-trodden or treated unfairly I would be fighting for women's rights.

I feel your stance of women is seriously unequal, and as such, I have stood up.

It is not women that treat men unfairly, its the whole of society. The roots of this are deeply buried in feminism. But the majority of women dont give a sh*t about feminism just as most men dont care about male rights.

Because of this I do not assume women=bad man=good.

Does this answer your question?

Quote from Glitz

I belive it is right to treat people fairly, that is my moral stance...Does this answer your question?

You are getting close! To reiterate, you think that it is Wrong to treat people unfairly, because it is Right to treat them fairly. Correct so far?

And if so, can we say that this belief of yours, is what could be called, a natural instinct or impulse?

Quote from westminster

You are getting close! To reiterate, you think that it is Wrong to treat people unfairly, because it is Right to treat them fairly. Correct so far?

And if so, can we say that this belief of yours, is what could be called, a natural instinct or impulse?

I did mention that up the thread, some belive that, I'm more skeptical.

But in the interests of moving on with your cunning ploy, lets say yes.

Quote from Glitz

I did mention that up the thread, some belive that, I'm more skeptical.

But in the interests of moving on with your cunning ploy, lets say yes.

Well, I'm patient enough to wait for you to just be honest.

Firstly, before this thread descends into a prolonged exchange of personal attacks and general hostility. Let me remind everyone that personal attacks are not welcome, or attempting to belittle others by highlighting punctuation mistakes.

Indulging in such behaviour merely detracts from the topic of the original thread, and true debate is dissipated as a consequence. I'm sure everybody would respect this request without any further interjection from me. Keep the tone respectful please.

Quote from westminster

Well, I'm patient enough to wait for you to just be honest.

About what?

Quote from westminster

The responses from Glitz and CM are responses that I can get from a thousand places and a million different people. The responses from Yan Yan and Brad are unique. While I am certain we won't agree on everything, I don't think we'd have much trouble being allies. Glitz and CM confuse me, I don't know why they are here.

Who made you the arbiter of who belongs here? I'm here because of the callous manner in which my partner was treated, not only because of false accusations, but because he's a man and, therefore, MUST be guilty of something. I hate unfairness. I loathe prejudice. I think men - particularly white men - are getting screwed in the US.

I have a beautiful grandson who is one and I want a better world for him. Not only is he male, he's white, and he's got a Jewish surname even though he's as much Italian and Irish and German as he is Jewish - there's still anti-Semitism in the US, and I'm afraid for his future.

Does that answer your question? There's a lot more, but I'm too tired to respond properly right now.

I'm rather curious why there is a feeling that members need to justify their reasons for being here. Whoever reads this, you're here for *your* reasons. Although it's basic manners to introduce yourself there remains no demand to know details. This board exists partly to vent, and if that is the only function you give it, so be it.
The only people anyone may want to justify something to would really be themselves, or perhaps if something is extreme then the Admin/Mods may step in. That aside, anything more is (or should be) voluntary.

Quote from contrarymary

Who made you the arbiter of who belongs here?

You read too much into the question I asked. And quite frankly, your response was overly ego-centric. Therefore, I'm not surprised you seem upset.

Quote from westminister

If you really want answers to all of those questions, be patient and as you answer mine, I'll answer yours.

*Looks at watch*

Well, I guess I didn't give the answers you needed then. Either that or you stretched the discussion out so long you forget where you were heading.

Glitz,

To reiterate, you think that it is Wrong to treat people unfairly, because it is Right to treat them fairly. Correct so far?

And if so, can we say that this belief of yours, is what could be called, a natural instinct or impulse?

Your last answer to this involved what other people thought and a hypothetical answer. That won't work.