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  • Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    This is a discussion on Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again within the Fathers Forum forums, part of the Marriage/Divorce, Children, Choice for Men category; Men - Think You’re Not Having A Baby? Think Again 2 12 2006 Don’t want a baby? No matter. You ...


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      #1  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Men - Think You’re Not Having A Baby? Think Again

    2 12 2006 Don’t want a baby? No matter. You may soon be hearing the pitter-patter of little feet anyway. By that time you’ll know – too late – you’ve been duped into fatherhood.


    I had heard of incidences of women trapping men into having a baby, but somehow I thought it was the exception rather than the rule. I need to revisit my thinking. Judging by this article entitled “That was no “Accident” and brought to my attention by Kath not only is it not uncommon, it isn’t even particularly condemned. Why not? Well, because the woman wants a baby. And it appears not only does the end justify the means, but it doesn’t seem to matter that their partner doesn’t want or is not prepared for fatherhood.


    As I read the article I had several thoughts. Each one worthy of an article itself. I found the hairs on my neck standing on end. I felt disgusted at the depths that some women would sink to have a baby.


    From the article, which I hope you will read, here’s a real life scenario:
    “… Jody (not her real name), a 32-year-old account manager for a major New York ad firm, decided to speed things along with her boyfriend two years ago by getting pregnant without telling him. “It’s not about trapping the guy,” Jody says. “That’s kind of old-fashioned. Yeah, you want him to be into it, but there are other ways to get a guy to commit. If you’re smart and in a good relationship, it’s just about the fact that you want a kid.”


    Really? How fuckwitted is that? I always thought that lying and deceiving another person was wrong. Period. Lying to, tricking and deceiving the person you are supposedly in a (long term/committed) relationship with is, to me, a contradiction in terms. If you are deceiving the person, you neither love nor respect them, even though you (and he, poor guy) are under the sad delusion that you do. Women who trick a man into having a baby, thinking that once the baby is there the man will “come around” or “change their mind” are, among other things, simply the lowest species of low-life.


    For the guys, the line between dead-beat dad and victim of deceit seems to be so thin as to be non-existent. According to the article, the unfortunate men don’t even have the law on their side and are going to end up being fathers (whether or not they see the child at all, and whether they want to be or not) with full parental obligations. Here’s an excerpt from the same article:
    “….The NCM actually offers the “Reproductive Rights Affidavit” (think of it as the sexual equivalent of a living will), which challenges “any court order that seeks to impose a parental obligation upon me against my will.” Unfortunately for Jeremy, a 35-year-old technical consultant and musician in New York, the affidavit doesn’t provide a legal cover for now. He thought he’d found himself a nice girl. He had just split with his longtime fiancée but explains that this new woman was saying all the right things—even when it came to practical matters. She was on the Pill. She was pro-choice. So she and Jeremy (who’s using a fake name) enjoyed a couple of months of unprotected intimacy.

    Then things got weird. She mysteriously quit drinking. She disappeared for days at a time. She told him she was considering going off birth control, though she assured him she hadn’t yet. By July, Jeremy had had enough and broke things off. Then in August, he says, she told him she was pregnant and was keeping it. “She was pregnant all of May, all of June, and all of July,” Jeremy says. “I said, ‘Why didn’t you tell me about this sooner?’ She’s like, ‘I didn’t want you to influence my decision.’ Something that has potential impact on me for the rest of my life, she doesn’t want me influencing her decision!?


    More than a year and $6,500 in legal fees later, Jeremy has a 7-month-old boy he’s never met, a child-support case pending, and a judge who’s less than sympathetic toward his allegations of contraceptive deceit. Even his own attorney told him he’d better ditch that dream of becoming a full-time musician and focus on the computer gig that he’d hoped would only supplement his income: “She was like, ‘You know what? You gotta be a man. You’re gonna have to have a job 40 hours a week, and you need to support this child—this is your responsibility and your obligation.’ And I’m thinking to myself, like, ‘How is all of this my responsibility and my obligation when none of this was my choice?’”


    Men. You may think you aren’t ready for the responsibility of fatherhood. You’re probably right. The scary thing is, even though you should have the right to have a say in how your life is about to change, don’t bet that you will. It may not matter one jot to your partner – if she decides she wants a baby. Best look out. And unprotected sex? Definitely not worth it.


    Thanks to fellow blogger A Likely Story for sending me this link, and highlighting this very despicable practice. I think it’s well worth writing about.
    While thinking about my own reasons for not wanting children a little deeper, I came across this site while searching for other childfree men's opinions. BTW, looking for opinions form childfree men is like looking for a needle-in-a-haystack, but I find no problem when it comes to getting a child-free woman's opinion.



     
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      #2  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Last year, Matt Dubay, a 25-year-old computer programmer in Saginaw, Michigan, says he had the same reaction when his girlfriend, Lauren Wells, allegedly pulled something similar. Dubay claims she told him she was infertile and was using a contraceptive "as an extra layer of assurance and protection." But when she got pregnant anyway and told Dubay she was keeping the baby, he said he wanted no part of it. Earlier this year, he argued in court that her alleged deception should exempt him from having to pay child support. His lawyer, Jeffrey Cojocar, reasoned that Michigan's paternity law violated the Constitution's equal-protection clause: If the situation were reversed and Dubay had gotten Wells pregnant after claiming he was sterile, he'd have no way of forcing her either to keep or to abort the child. The judge didn't buy his argument, but it's helped open a broadening national dialogue: Where do you draw the line between deadbeat dad and victim of deceit?


     
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      #3  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Chopping one's testicles off would be too careful.



    Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
    So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


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      #4  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TERA View Post
    Protect yourself. When it comes to preventing an unwanted pregnancy, there's no such thing as being "too careful."
    Indeed, I imagine myself in that position... and I don't like what I see. If a woman ever tricked me like that, I would lose it.


     
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      #5  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Where do you draw the line between deadbeat dad and victim of deceit?

    This is an easy question in Japan, where I am living. There is no law about child-support. If you are living with the woman, you have to take care about ALL children with both of you in the same household - you are the biological father or not does not matter.

    If you divorce or separate - married or cohabitation is not a criteria - you have no visitation rights as father, and on the other side no obligations to pay anything. Usually children will stay with the mother.

    You want to see the children, who continue to live with the woman - your children or her children not does not matter - it is the custom here in Japan to offer some support money in return.

    You must simply said arrange that all with the woman - there is no legal way to force payment from the father and to force visitation rights from the mother.

    As woman in Japan you are better off not to cheat your boyfriend to become a father - the 'father against his will' might refuse to pay anything and just leave...moving away, forget about his past, problem finished for him.



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      #6  
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    If that woman did that to me I'd be like "I'm not paying for your stupid little bastard you dumb bitch." And if you send the government after me for "child support" I'm going to run away to Montana and I'm going to find those crazy guys who dug themselves a hole in Montana in the 90's because they didn't want to pay taxes and it cost the government something like 5 million dollars to dig them out of the hole and I think they're out of jail now so they'd probably be up for digging another hole. Except this time the hole will be twice as deep so it will cost the government 10 million dollars to dig us all out of the hole. And with the fact that the government dug itself into a hole financially getting whore support for you for 10 million dollars will be its last priority and it probably won't even get around to it for something like 20 years. So you can just cry yourself an ocean and drown in it you stupid little bitch.


     
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      #7  
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TERA View Post
    That "stupid little bastard" would be your child. How can you call your own child a "stupid little bastard" and dismiss the child as if your very own blood did not run through its veins? The mother who deceived you may be a dumb, conniving bitch- but the child? Will you punish your own child for the sins of its mother?
    Meh. That whole post he made was pretty stupid. But in all seriousness, if something like that happened to me personally, I think I would do something monstrous. I have a pretty bad temper, and faced with something like that... I just don't know what I'd be capable of.


     
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      #8  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TERA View Post
    I remember Yohan explaining this before...and the whole idea of fathers not having any visitation rights is scary. Women hold all the cards, then, in Japan, if there's a divorce. If she doesn't think you're offering her enough money..she can deny you visitation. If she just wants to deny you visitation for ANY reason, she could. And there'd be nothing you or the courts or anyone else could do about it.
    But on the flipside, women don't want to divorce because there is no financial reward! It seems to me, from what Yohan has said about this, that although the system is unfair - it is unfair to both parents (he = no rights / she = no money) - and so they both make an..

    big word coming up, so feminists - prepare yourselves:

    ...and so they both make an...



    EFFORT!


    That's right, it seems to me that because the system takes no sides (as oppose in our Western cultures which take a clear woman's side), they both make an effort to make the marriage work - for everyone's benefit.

    Wow, imagine that!?!



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      #9  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Given the current climate in our Western world, I'd actually prefer Yohan's system to the one I currently endure.



    Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
    So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


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      #10  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TERA View Post
    Marx,

    If you were under Yohan's system, chances are you'd never see your kids again.
    I agree with Tera, there.


     
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      #11  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MadShangi View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TERA
    Marx,
    If you were under Yohan's system, chances are you'd never see your kids again.
    I agree with Tera, there.
    You have to seen this also by the side of the children.

    Not only by the father (no visitation right) and mother (no money, if she is refusing).

    In Japan the argument is, that children should not face 2 fathers, one biological, and the other on, who is presently living with the divorced mother now, but is not the biological father.
    The general position of the Japanese Ministry of Justice is not to have anything to do with all these family matters - you must arrange such problems yourself.

    In Japan a family is ONE husband (father but not necessarily the biological one), ONE Wife (mother not necessarlily the biological one), and children living in the same household - and there are no legal rights whatever for other people to interfere in their personal matters - like ex-husbands, ex-wives, adult children not living with them in the same rooms, parents not living in the same household, other relatives living next door etc.

    It should be noticed, that visitation rights are not only a problem in Japan, but also in the Western world. There are many complaints, that fathers have to pay, but still cannot meet the children.

    1 -
    Most Japanese fathers accept the system, money/visitation, or no money/no visitation/forget them all....

    2 -
    Most Japanese mothers are not against the system, as they can easier look for another new husband without feeling disturbed by the former husband claiming father's rights.

    3 -
    The new Japanese boyfriend/husband/'father' is not in a bad posititon either, because he can never be forced by law to pay for these children in case of separation/divorce, as there is generally no child-support.
    He has to support these children from the former ex-husband only as long as he is living with them in the same rooms.

    4 -
    Usually in Japan there is divorce out of court, and generally, child-support for visitation in return is about USD 300,- to USD 800,- for one to two children, depending on your income. Just a guideline, no obligation.

    Most divorced couples find an agreement together with relatives, sometimes with ward office social employees, who take the visitation-money as go-between and bring and pick up the children again in a neutral place...family restaurant, play-ground .... something like that.

    5 - All Japanese with family troubles will agree, forget about Japanese courts, it costs money, endless discussion over years ....

    Better make a written contract - sometimes with lawyers to have a binding legal paper - and best for all - try to agree, do all and everything out of court.

    ------------------

    There are various solutions to that never ending problem about divorce and children. Japan has one system, and USA has another system, and Sweden has another system. Which one is better, and for whom is it better, I canot say...to many possibilities and you cannot consider everybody and every aspect.



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      #12  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    I had heard of incidences of women trapping men into having a baby, but somehow I thought it was the exception rather than the rule.
    Lots of guys think they are the exception instead of the rule. That they are special. That their relationship with a girl is different from others. That they are immune to divorce etc. That bad things can't happen to them. Only to wake up and find that the exact same shit happens to them one day as to the other guys that got screwed over by their ex-wives and divorce court.



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      #13  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tyrael View Post
    Lots of guys think they are the exception instead of the rule. That they are special. That their relationship with a girl is different from others. That they are immune to divorce etc. That bad things can't happen to them. Only to wake up and find that the exact same shit happens to them one day as to the other guys that got screwed over by their ex-wives and divorce court.
    So true.


     
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      #14  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Ok, let's see.

    Can't see your kids, still must pay
    Can't see your kids, don't have to pay

    Which sounds more equitable?


     
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      #15  
    Old 7th-October-2008
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    Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

    Ker ching.

    The other bonus which for takes higher ground, is that the couple will make more effort knowing they may not have much after a divorce. The time it becomes a problem is when the woman knows she can just move onto the next man in line...



    Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
    So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


    My blog / Your Blog
    Please use the TAGS to help organise the content - found at the bottom of every thread
    If you have found a website that supports predominantly male clients, click here to list it so other men may make use of it.

    Sorry to say - it's that time again - donations are needed to help support the upkeep of the site. I've been paying the last few installments but cannot reach January's - please donate £10 or whatever you can afford by click the 'Donate' button...








     
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