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Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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  #1  
Old 7th-October-2008
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Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Men - Think You’re Not Having A Baby? Think Again

2 12 2006 Don’t want a baby? No matter. You may soon be hearing the pitter-patter of little feet anyway. By that time you’ll know – too late – you’ve been duped into fatherhood.


I had heard of incidences of women trapping men into having a baby, but somehow I thought it was the exception rather than the rule. I need to revisit my thinking. Judging by this article entitled “That was no “Accident” and brought to my attention by Kath not only is it not uncommon, it isn’t even particularly condemned. Why not? Well, because the woman wants a baby. And it appears not only does the end justify the means, but it doesn’t seem to matter that their partner doesn’t want or is not prepared for fatherhood.


As I read the article I had several thoughts. Each one worthy of an article itself. I found the hairs on my neck standing on end. I felt disgusted at the depths that some women would sink to have a baby.


From the article, which I hope you will read, here’s a real life scenario:
“… Jody (not her real name), a 32-year-old account manager for a major New York ad firm, decided to speed things along with her boyfriend two years ago by getting pregnant without telling him. “It’s not about trapping the guy,” Jody says. “That’s kind of old-fashioned. Yeah, you want him to be into it, but there are other ways to get a guy to commit. If you’re smart and in a good relationship, it’s just about the fact that you want a kid.”


Really? How fuckwitted is that? I always thought that lying and deceiving another person was wrong. Period. Lying to, tricking and deceiving the person you are supposedly in a (long term/committed) relationship with is, to me, a contradiction in terms. If you are deceiving the person, you neither love nor respect them, even though you (and he, poor guy) are under the sad delusion that you do. Women who trick a man into having a baby, thinking that once the baby is there the man will “come around” or “change their mind” are, among other things, simply the lowest species of low-life.


For the guys, the line between dead-beat dad and victim of deceit seems to be so thin as to be non-existent. According to the article, the unfortunate men don’t even have the law on their side and are going to end up being fathers (whether or not they see the child at all, and whether they want to be or not) with full parental obligations. Here’s an excerpt from the same article:
“….The NCM actually offers the “Reproductive Rights Affidavit” (think of it as the sexual equivalent of a living will), which challenges “any court order that seeks to impose a parental obligation upon me against my will.” Unfortunately for Jeremy, a 35-year-old technical consultant and musician in New York, the affidavit doesn’t provide a legal cover for now. He thought he’d found himself a nice girl. He had just split with his longtime fiancée but explains that this new woman was saying all the right things—even when it came to practical matters. She was on the Pill. She was pro-choice. So she and Jeremy (who’s using a fake name) enjoyed a couple of months of unprotected intimacy.

Then things got weird. She mysteriously quit drinking. She disappeared for days at a time. She told him she was considering going off birth control, though she assured him she hadn’t yet. By July, Jeremy had had enough and broke things off. Then in August, he says, she told him she was pregnant and was keeping it. “She was pregnant all of May, all of June, and all of July,” Jeremy says. “I said, ‘Why didn’t you tell me about this sooner?’ She’s like, ‘I didn’t want you to influence my decision.’ Something that has potential impact on me for the rest of my life, she doesn’t want me influencing her decision!?


More than a year and $6,500 in legal fees later, Jeremy has a 7-month-old boy he’s never met, a child-support case pending, and a judge who’s less than sympathetic toward his allegations of contraceptive deceit. Even his own attorney told him he’d better ditch that dream of becoming a full-time musician and focus on the computer gig that he’d hoped would only supplement his income: “She was like, ‘You know what? You gotta be a man. You’re gonna have to have a job 40 hours a week, and you need to support this child—this is your responsibility and your obligation.’ And I’m thinking to myself, like, ‘How is all of this my responsibility and my obligation when none of this was my choice?’”


Men. You may think you aren’t ready for the responsibility of fatherhood. You’re probably right. The scary thing is, even though you should have the right to have a say in how your life is about to change, don’t bet that you will. It may not matter one jot to your partner – if she decides she wants a baby. Best look out. And unprotected sex? Definitely not worth it.


Thanks to fellow blogger A Likely Story for sending me this link, and highlighting this very despicable practice. I think it’s well worth writing about.
While thinking about my own reasons for not wanting children a little deeper, I came across this site while searching for other childfree men's opinions. BTW, looking for opinions form childfree men is like looking for a needle-in-a-haystack, but I find no problem when it comes to getting a child-free woman's opinion.


 
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Old 7th-October-2008
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Last year, Matt Dubay, a 25-year-old computer programmer in Saginaw, Michigan, says he had the same reaction when his girlfriend, Lauren Wells, allegedly pulled something similar. Dubay claims she told him she was infertile and was using a contraceptive "as an extra layer of assurance and protection." But when she got pregnant anyway and told Dubay she was keeping the baby, he said he wanted no part of it. Earlier this year, he argued in court that her alleged deception should exempt him from having to pay child support. His lawyer, Jeffrey Cojocar, reasoned that Michigan's paternity law violated the Constitution's equal-protection clause: If the situation were reversed and Dubay had gotten Wells pregnant after claiming he was sterile, he'd have no way of forcing her either to keep or to abort the child. The judge didn't buy his argument, but it's helped open a broadening national dialogue: Where do you draw the line between deadbeat dad and victim of deceit?


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Protect yourself. When it comes to preventing an unwanted pregnancy, there's no such thing as being "too careful."


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Chopping one's testicles off would be too careful.



Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Originally Posted by TERA View Post
Protect yourself. When it comes to preventing an unwanted pregnancy, there's no such thing as being "too careful."
Indeed, I imagine myself in that position... and I don't like what I see. If a woman ever tricked me like that, I would lose it.


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Understandable!


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Where do you draw the line between deadbeat dad and victim of deceit?

This is an easy question in Japan, where I am living. There is no law about child-support. If you are living with the woman, you have to take care about ALL children with both of you in the same household - you are the biological father or not does not matter.

If you divorce or separate - married or cohabitation is not a criteria - you have no visitation rights as father, and on the other side no obligations to pay anything. Usually children will stay with the mother.

You want to see the children, who continue to live with the woman - your children or her children not does not matter - it is the custom here in Japan to offer some support money in return.

You must simply said arrange that all with the woman - there is no legal way to force payment from the father and to force visitation rights from the mother.

As woman in Japan you are better off not to cheat your boyfriend to become a father - the 'father against his will' might refuse to pay anything and just leave...moving away, forget about his past, problem finished for him.



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Let's do something...Why remain silent?Let's talk back to unreasonable feminist demands.
 
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Old 7th-October-2008
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

If that woman did that to me I'd be like "I'm not paying for your stupid little bastard you dumb bitch." And if you send the government after me for "child support" I'm going to run away to Montana and I'm going to find those crazy guys who dug themselves a hole in Montana in the 90's because they didn't want to pay taxes and it cost the government something like 5 million dollars to dig them out of the hole and I think they're out of jail now so they'd probably be up for digging another hole. Except this time the hole will be twice as deep so it will cost the government 10 million dollars to dig us all out of the hole. And with the fact that the government dug itself into a hole financially getting whore support for you for 10 million dollars will be its last priority and it probably won't even get around to it for something like 20 years. So you can just cry yourself an ocean and drown in it you stupid little bitch.


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

I remember Yohan explaining this before...and the whole idea of fathers not having any visitation rights is scary. Women hold all the cards, then, in Japan, if there's a divorce. If she doesn't think you're offering her enough money..she can deny you visitation. If she just wants to deny you visitation for ANY reason, she could. And there'd be nothing you or the courts or anyone else could do about it.


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Originally Posted by LukeSkywalker View Post
If that woman did that to me I'd be like "I'm not paying for your stupid little bastard you dumb bitch." And if you send the government after me for "child support" I'm going to run away to Montana and I'm going to find those crazy guys who dug themselves a hole in Montana in the 90's because they didn't want to pay taxes and it cost the government something like 5 million dollars to dig them out of the hole and I think they're out of jail now so they'd probably be up for digging another hole. Except this time the hole will be twice as deep so it will cost the government 10 million dollars to dig us all out of the hole. And with the fact that the government dug itself into a hole financially getting whore support for you for 10 million dollars will be its last priority and it probably won't even get around to it for something like 20 years. So you can just cry yourself an ocean and drown in it you stupid little bitch.
That "stupid little bastard" would be your child. How can you call your own child a "stupid little bastard" and dismiss the child as if your very own blood did not run through its veins? The mother who deceived you may be a dumb, conniving bitch- but the child? Will you punish your own child for the sins of its mother?


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Originally Posted by TERA View Post
That "stupid little bastard" would be your child. How can you call your own child a "stupid little bastard" and dismiss the child as if your very own blood did not run through its veins? The mother who deceived you may be a dumb, conniving bitch- but the child? Will you punish your own child for the sins of its mother?
Meh. That whole post he made was pretty stupid. But in all seriousness, if something like that happened to me personally, I think I would do something monstrous. I have a pretty bad temper, and faced with something like that... I just don't know what I'd be capable of.


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

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Originally Posted by TERA View Post
I remember Yohan explaining this before...and the whole idea of fathers not having any visitation rights is scary. Women hold all the cards, then, in Japan, if there's a divorce. If she doesn't think you're offering her enough money..she can deny you visitation. If she just wants to deny you visitation for ANY reason, she could. And there'd be nothing you or the courts or anyone else could do about it.
But on the flipside, women don't want to divorce because there is no financial reward! It seems to me, from what Yohan has said about this, that although the system is unfair - it is unfair to both parents (he = no rights / she = no money) - and so they both make an..

big word coming up, so feminists - prepare yourselves:

...and so they both make an...



EFFORT!


That's right, it seems to me that because the system takes no sides (as oppose in our Western cultures which take a clear woman's side), they both make an effort to make the marriage work - for everyone's benefit.

Wow, imagine that!?!



Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


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  #13  
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

True, the divorce rate is lower in Japan...but all things considered, one in four still isn't ideal. But it is a lot lower than in the US, where divorce happens in one out of every two marriages.

Still I'd argue that a woman has more power in a divorce than men do, even in Japan. Though she may not be entitled to child support (legally), she can deny a man visitation for any reason whatsoever.

Divorce Rates In Japan

Japan divorce rate is approximately 27%. One in every four marriages ends up to divorce. According to Reuters, The number of divorces annually has almost doubled since 1990, with 264,000 couples formally breaking up in 2000. From 2000 to 2004, there is a little bit drop in the divorce rate in Japan.

If we compare the japan divorce rate with the divorce rates of the other countries:


Divorce rate per 1000 couples
Japan: 2.2
USA:4.0
Germany: 2.4
France: 1.9
Italy: 0.7
UK: 2.6
Sweden: 2.4


Source: Statistics and Information Department, Minister's Secretariat
From above statistics, it is clear that divorce rate is about half than US divorce rate.
According to Health Ministry statistics, divorces rate in Japan had more than doubled, from just over 95,000 in 1970 to 206,955 in 1996.
Divorce Rates
Divorce Rates In CanadaDivorce Rates In UKDivorce Rate In Australia Divorce Rate In JapanDivorce Rates In SingaporeDivorce Rate In India


 
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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Given the current climate in our Western world, I'd actually prefer Yohan's system to the one I currently endure.



Out of the gloom a voice spake unto me. 'Smile and be happy, Things could get worse."
So I smiled and was happy, and behold... Things did get worse.


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Re: Men - Think You're Not Having a Baby? - Think Again

Marx,

If you were under Yohan's system, chances are you'd never see your kids again.


 
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