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  1. #46
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Popadibs View Post
    If we could end institutions that reward women at the expense of men then we could end this cycle of the rich having to give what they earn to the poor. We just have to figure out how to end these institutions because they're essentially the same problem but with 2 different groups.

    This will just encourage people to know that they don't have to earn a living because they can get a free ride off of the backs of the people that earn their money.
    Do you think it will happen?

  2. #47
    Popadibs's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Garak View Post
    Do you think it will happen?
    I think it COULD happen depending on us BUT it would only postpone the inevitable. So instead of a 1 world gov't in 100 years we might have it in 120 years instead.
    Almost

  3. #48
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Popadibs View Post
    Well the problem with going the UHC route is that the government will eventually have too much control over health care and also there will be no incentives for new and improved treatment to be created.

    Do we really want our gov't to monopolize the health industry?
    We already have a monopoly going on here but it is controlled by a group of very wealthy people who have only one goal...to get even richer. This is why the costs went out of control and government had to get involved in the first place. Making employers pay the health insurance was a mistake but something had to be done.

    UHC has worked in other countries, no country with UHC has 50 million people who have no health care. No country with UHC forced people into bankruptcy just to stay alive.

    UHC isn't perfect but our system isn't either. Health care is not like buying a TV, the lack of a TV will not kill you.

  4. #49
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Popadibs View Post
    I think it COULD happen depending on us BUT it would only postpone the inevitable. So instead of a 1 world gov't in 100 years we might have it in 120 years instead.
    Right, postpone but not prevent.

  5. #50
    RebelliousVanilla's Avatar
    RebelliousVanilla is offline Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    I wrote those arguments first. You didn't bother to debate any of them and just ignored them. So why would I answer you?

    And UHC is paid by employers and rich people anyway. It isn't employing costs or healthcare costs that is driving business overseas but high taxes and regulation. There was a study related to US expats whose businesses are around 8-9 trillion out of America and they were asked what would they do if the US government would do away with the income tax and replace it with the fair tax. Something like 60% said that they'd open their next research or manufacturing facility in the US and 25% said that they'd move their main operations head quarters back in the US.

    And the free market healthcare didn't fail since the US healthcare system isn't free market. I proved this to you. Obviously, another tactic employed by leftists is blame everything on capitalism, even though it wasn't really capitalism that failed, but the way government interfered with shit. This is a fact, you can ignore facts if you want to and praise ideology.

    And by the way, if you complain about women leeching on men, while you want to leech on others, you are a hypocrite.

    EDIT:In the 50 million number, you have around 13 million people who are eligible for other aid programs and another 10 million who afford insurance but chose not to get it. Oh, illegal immigrants are counted in that number too.

  6. #51
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from RebelliousVanilla View Post
    I wrote those arguments first. You didn't bother to debate any of them and just ignored them. So why would I answer you?

    And UHC is paid by employers and rich people anyway. It isn't employing costs or healthcare costs that is driving business overseas but high taxes and regulation. There was a study related to US expats whose businesses are around 8-9 trillion out of America and they were asked what would they do if the US government would do away with the income tax and replace it with the fair tax. Something like 60% said that they'd open their next research or manufacturing facility in the US and 25% said that they'd move their main operations head quarters back in the US.

    And the free market healthcare didn't fail since the US healthcare system isn't free market. I proved this to you. Obviously, another tactic employed by leftists is blame everything on capitalism, even though it wasn't really capitalism that failed, but the way government interfered with shit. This is a fact, you can ignore facts if you want to and praise ideology.

    And by the way, if you complain about women leeching on men, while you want to leech on others, you are a hypocrite.

    EDIT:In the 50 million number, you have around 13 million people who are eligible for other aid programs and another 10 million who afford insurance but chose not to get it. Oh, illegal immigrants are counted in that number too.
    Once again, "have you ever seen Capitalism work?"

    You keep saying that everything that has failed in the US was not based on Capitalism. Well hell girl, how do you know Capitalism is so great when you have probably never seen it work??

    Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that it is hard for MEN to get medicaid. How many of that 50 million may qualify for medicaid (financially) but don't because they are men??

  7. #52
    Kim's Avatar
    Kim
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Garak View Post
    He's a Republican politician. I thought he was a 50 hour a week hard worker. Accepting bribes for 50 hours a week isn't hard work. I wonder how much of that 50 hours of hard labor is spent talking on the phone or eating $100 meals.

    It's really a matter of perspective here. You think (and I used to agree) that we should go back in time and take the free money from women. Won't happen, you are wasting your time just thinking about it.

    Globalization is going to happen, like it or not. You can either dream of reliving the past or push for a better future. Since welfare will only expand as globalization occurs, I think it is in our best interests to try to make it equitable rather than bury our head in the sand and offer no valid opinion (because we are looking in the wrong direction).

    Hell, even Christians know that globalization is coming, their Bible tells them so. Face it, we aren't going to repeal welfare so we need to concentrate on making it more equitable.
    Garak, my friend, YOU are government's end game. Do you really think the government cares about women? Of course they don't. The government only cares about the government, it's survival and it's expansion. Feminism was a tool, a means to an ends. The ends being a nation of men too tired, discouraged and weary to fight for their freedoms.

    Controlling women was never a problem....women tend to seek safety and security over freedom. Controlling men was the conundrum, finding a way to get men to hand over their freedoms quietly and peacefully.....they've done their job very, very well.

    Let me just ask a simple question for everyone involved in this thread.

    Do you think there is a chance in hell of going back in time and taking tax payer or privately (but forced ie, child alimony) funded benefits from women?
    Of course there's not.....so, because we can't go back in time and change the past we should never move forward with doing right in the future? It's never too late to do the right thing.

    As for what will "happen, like it or not".....it doesn't matter. Even if the entire world embraces wrong, that's no excuse to follow along with them. I will gladly go down with the ship, bailing away like crazy before I'll jump on the longboat with the devil....metaphorically speaking.


    The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." Thomas Sowell

    Welfare has effectively destroyed compassion and charity in society. It has also turned people into pets, waiting to be taken care of and fed by their master (government).

    It doesn't matter what the question is.....socialism and expanded government control is never the answer.
    Last edited by Kim; 1st-September-2009 at 10:10 PM.
    "Every noble impulse, every unselfish expression of love; every brave suffering for the right; every surrender of self to something higher than self; every loyalty to an ideal; every unselfish devotion to principle; every helpfulness to humanity; every act of self-control; every fine courage of the soul, undefeated by pretense or policy, but by being, doing, and living of good for the very goodís sakeóthat is spirituality." -David O. McKay

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

    http://equalbutdifferent.blogspot.com/

  8. #53
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Kim View Post
    Garak, my friend, YOU are government's end game. Do you really think the government cares about women? Of course they don't. The government only cares about the government, it's survival and it's expansion. Feminism was a tool, a means to an ends. The ends being a nation of men too tired, discouraged and weary to fight for their freedoms.

    Controlling women was never a problem....women tend to seek safety and security over freedom. Controlling men was the conundrum, finding a way to get men to hand over their freedoms quietly and peacefully.....they've done their job very, very well.



    Of course there's not.....so, because we can't go back in time and change the past we should never move forward with doing right in the future? It's never too late to do the right thing.

    As for what will "happen, like it or not".....it doesn't matter. Even if the entire world embraces wrong, that's no excuse to follow along with them. I will gladly go down with the ship, bailing away like crazy before I'll jump on the longboat with the devil....metaphorically speaking.


    The assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." Thomas Sowell

    Welfare has effectively destroyed compassion and charity in society. It has also turned people into pets, waiting to be taken care of and fed by their master (government).

    It doesn't matter what the question is.....socialism and expanded government control is never the answer.

    Um ok.

    So, you know we can't go back but you want to continue beating your head against the wall trying to accomplish what?

    Are you trying to make things more equitable for men by protesting that we should go back? You said yourself that won't happen.

    Recognize the direction we are headed in and try to make things more equitable in that direction.

    The only way to go back is to start from scratch and that won't happen until the current direction runs it's course.

  9. #54
    TheOldOligarch's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Well, time for me to weigh in here, you all knew it was coming

    Garak, you're wrong about everything...again.

    Globalization is going to happen, like it or not. You can either dream of reliving the past or push for a better future. Since welfare will only expand as globalization occurs, I think it is in our best interests to try to make it equitable rather than bury our head in the sand and offer no valid opinion (because we are looking in the wrong direction).

    Hell, even Christians know that globalization is coming, their Bible tells them so. Face it, we aren't going to repeal welfare so we need to concentrate on making it more equitable.
    All this is based upon the falacious belief that western economic hegemony can survive our current rate of welfare expansion.

    It cant.

    You are half right when you say the welfare state wont be abolished. It wont be abolished willingly, but you still have no absorbed the lesson that socialism simply does not work. We are consuming capital at the moment, in fact we're in negative equity so we already consumed all our capital, and now we've exhuasted our credit. At some point the welfare state will collapse, because there simply wont be any money to support it. What you need to understand is that if China cut us off tomorrow, as in if they stopped lending us money completely, our economies would basically disintegrate. The only thing left to see if how poor are we willing to become before we see that is all this welfare and big government that is making us poorer?

    I've got a question for all you cpaitalists out there in MRA land. What happens when there are more adults who need a job than there are jobs?
    New businesses open or old ones expand creating more jobs. Again, you think like a socialist; no initiative. You see jobs as a finite resource that is created through some mysterious arcane or alchemical process in the economy. People create jobs, the more people, the more jobs. This is so fucking obvious I cant believe I'm having to say it.

    What I mean is, we will have a one world government. Different people will view that different ways but it won't change the reality. A few people screaming "let's go back to 1776" won't stop it.
    Nonsense. One world government will never happen. One world government is a western idea and the economic and political hegemony of the west is coming to an end. The drive for one world government will die with it, do you see the powerhouse that China will become over the course of the next century accepting absorption into a global government?

    You are right when you say people advocating for a return to sound policies wont bring that return about. What will bring it about is necessity. We will go back to free market capitalism, either that or we'll be overtaken by those who follow it as we continue to become poorer and poorer

    We all know that UHC is coming. That is why the debate has turned to: "How to we make it work" instead of the nonsensical arguments of many conservatives that we should let the free market rule health care. The free market failed already and that is why government got involved but even that is unimportant. We all know UHC us coming, we just need to iron out the details. Those who waste time arguing that the free market is better are arguing outside the circle.
    If you adress nothing else in this post answer me this:

    If UHC is better at providing healthcare for people and the free market failed, then why did we win the Cold War? What makes healthcare differ from other services? Or do you think delegation to a central authority to be a superior system for all goods? If this is the case, why do you only advocate for government run healthcare? Why not all out communism?
    The reality of the times is that men marry the state they live in. The woman just comes with the deal for a few years. - Lester Burnham

    Feminism will die from a synergistic overdose of stupidity, smugness, and sexism - Lester Burnham

  10. #55
    Garak's Avatar
    Garak is online now Established Member
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    I have better things to do than argue with everyone.

    I am wrong everyone who says "CAPITALISM IS PERFECT" wins.

    I think the MRM will get nowhere trying to turn back the clock though.

  11. #56
    shaazam's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Kim View Post
    Garak, my friend, YOU are government's end game. Do you really think the government cares about women? Of course they don't. The government only cares about the government, it's survival and it's expansion. Feminism was a tool, a means to an ends. The ends being a nation of men too tired, discouraged and weary to fight for their freedoms.

    Controlling women was never a problem....women tend to seek safety and security over freedom. Controlling men was the conundrum, finding a way to get men to hand over their freedoms quietly and peacefully.....they've done their job very, very well.



    Of course there's not.....so, because we can't go back in time and change the past we should never move forward with doing right in the future? It's never too late to do the right thing.

    As for what will "happen, like it or not".....it doesn't matter. Even if the entire world embraces wrong, that's no excuse to follow along with them. I will gladly go down with the ship, bailing away like crazy before I'll jump on the longboat with the devil....metaphorically speaking.


    ďThe assumption that spending more of the taxpayer's money will make things better has survived all kinds of evidence that it has made things worse. The black family- which survived slavery, discrimination, poverty, wars and depressions- began to come apart as the federal government moved in with its well-financed programs to "help." Thomas Sowell

    Welfare has effectively destroyed compassion and charity in society. It has also turned people into pets, waiting to be taken care of and fed by their master (government).

    It doesn't matter what the question is.....socialism and expanded government control is never the answer.
    ""Welfare has effectively destroyed compassion and charity in society. It has also turned people into pets, waiting to be taken care of and fed by their master (government).
    ""
    this is the case in Australia right across the board and recently the government gave those dependent on its teat a cash gift so as for them to spend ostensibly to stimulate the economy


    of course it wasn't a gift in the real sense as it will be clawed back anon by higher taxes igher interest and cutbacks in government expenditure

  12. #57
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Garak View Post
    I have better things to do than argue with everyone.

    I am wrong everyone who says "CAPITALISM IS PERFECT" wins.

    I think the MRM will get nowhere trying to turn back the clock though.
    Good, glad you finally see the light.

    We arent trying to turn back the clock though, we're trying to apply the brakes. We're trying to apply the brakes before we speed off into the abyss. I dont know about you, but I dont want to go to the abyss, the abyss is not somewhere I'd like to be.
    The reality of the times is that men marry the state they live in. The woman just comes with the deal for a few years. - Lester Burnham

    Feminism will die from a synergistic overdose of stupidity, smugness, and sexism - Lester Burnham

  13. #58
    Garak's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from TheOldOligarch View Post
    Good, glad you finally see the light.

    We arent trying to turn back the clock though, we're trying to apply the brakes. We're trying to apply the brakes before we speed off into the abyss. I dont know about you, but I dont want to go to the abyss, the abyss is not somewhere I'd like to be.
    Oh I see, so you want to get to the abyss as late as possible. I would rather the revolution begin so we can start from scratch sooner, instead of dragging the sequence of events out.

    Besides, asking about the cold war is a little like asking why one man could support a family of 5 on one income 60 years ago but he can't today. The world 60 years ago is not the same world as the one we live in today.

  14. #59
    TheOldOligarch's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from Garak View Post
    Oh I see, so you want to get to the abyss as late as possible. I would rather the revolution begin so we can start from scratch sooner, instead of dragging the sequence of events out.

    Besides, asking about the cold war is a little like asking why one man could support a family of 5 on one income 60 years ago but he can't today. The world 60 years ago is not the same world as the one we live in today.
    I want to buy time for the driver to sober up.

    If you're saying you want to mount up the pressure on the big government welfare system so that it collapses and we can start again with a free market i might be able to go along with that. I'm still hoping if we can avoid immidiate disaster another Thatcher or Reagan will come along and we can roll back all this government without having to suffer a collapse of government.

    And the reason a man could support a family 60 years ago is because the government did not suck up so much of our productive labout 60 years ago. markets were freer and we were closer to the capitalist ideal.
    The reality of the times is that men marry the state they live in. The woman just comes with the deal for a few years. - Lester Burnham

    Feminism will die from a synergistic overdose of stupidity, smugness, and sexism - Lester Burnham

  15. #60
    Popadibs's Avatar
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    Re: A Man gets Tired

    Quote Quote from TheOldOligarch View Post
    I want to buy time for the driver to sober up.

    If you're saying you want to mount up the pressure on the big government welfare system so that it collapses and we can start again with a free market i might be able to go along with that. I'm still hoping if we can avoid immidiate disaster another Thatcher or Reagan will come along and we can roll back all this government without having to suffer a collapse of government.

    And the reason a man could support a family 60 years ago is because the government did not suck up so much of our productive labout 60 years ago. markets were freer and we were closer to the capitalist ideal.

    lol, you're one funny dude
    Almost


 

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