What is love?
The most asked question in the history of the human race
What is love to you, how do you define love?

For me love is like a seed that when nurtured with kindness, respect understanding and of coruse an ass load of love making(Yes there is a diffrance between sex and love making) will grow into a might redwood that will stand the test of time and fulrish

It is a timeless question, isn't it? Are there different kinds of love? I wonder...because I love my friends...I love my kids, I love humanity...I have loved romantically, and though all of these forms of caring "seem" different, (are expressed differently)- the underlying caring and concern seem the same.

I know Percy's probably gonna give me a good "whack" for this...ah yes...a sentimental fool I am...but this song gets me every time.

I think we all ponder at some point, what love is.

It's timeless in the sense that we've been asking it since time immemorial, but I think the answer has changed quite a bit over the millennia. These days for instance, idealism and romanticism are on the wane, cynicism is in the ascendancy. I think the innocent love of 50 years ago would have been quite nice to experience.

Hope that didn't make me sound like a complete mangina!

To me, love is a choice, a verb rather than a noun.

Even with children, parents can very much choose *not* to love them, even though this "choice" is more or less universally reviled.

Love is a choice, a choice to put the needs and interests of the beloved before oneself.

It's on the wane, in my view, in part because of the rise of the cynicism culture that Brian mentions, but also in part because of the individualist culture that has arisen. We're all encouraged by the culture, the laws, the economic system, even our families in some cases, to "look out for number one", first and foremost. Of course, that's not a horrible thing, but when it becomes excessive, it leads to a kind of ingrained solipsism or even narcissism -- and both of those inhibit the formation of habits that can enable a person to make the choice to love another.

Maybe it's only really "innocent" when we are very young...before we understand that love isn't always roses- that sometimes it's a challenge, it takes work and real commitment?

I don't know...my cynicism was not so present as a teen...it grew as I got older...all those fairy tales with "and they lived happily ever after" at the end, fed to us when we were kids...all those TV shows and movies that glamorize love to the point of surrealism...

Maybe love is not as glamorous as we'd like to believe when we are young. But...it has its rewards. If it didn't, it wouldn't be such a universal experience?

It does vary personally with experience, but it changes with society as well. I know some kids around 12 or 13 who are not just more cynical than I was at their age, but more cynical than I am now!! And as time goes on I see fewer really old couples that have stayed together all through their lives.

When I attended my grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary party, it was really something special. Not a dry eye in the house.

It is something wonderful, isn't it?

And yet...it was my grandpa's second marriage.

And now my mom and stepdad, they just celebrated their 28th...for both of them, this is their second marriage.

Had all of them never divorced, yes, they would have remained married to their firsts...but would they have been happiest? I don't know. I don't think so. They're happy now though.

Sometimes it's better for two people who cannot reconcile their differences to divorce. What good would it do to force people to stay married if they don't want to? Would it make things better? Or would it make things worse?

Everyone's different. There were a lot of horrible marriages back then as well, but expectations, and society's standards, norms and reference points, can affect how content you are in life. People seem less content now, even though they have more choice and material things. One thing is probably certain, even if the parents made themselves happier, the chances are it caused a fair amount of misery for many children.

I know it's not all about what makes the parents happiest...but kids...too...I remember hearing my mom and dad constantly fighting when I was kid. I was sad when they got divorced, because I didn't want my dad to move out. But at the same time, it was a huge relief not to hear the fighting anymore. When you're a child, and you see and hear your parents yelling, it's scary. It makes you feel unsafe. And often you feel ignored, too...as all of their energy is being spent and drained on the fighting going on. I honestly think that it's a good thing they divorced...! I can also honestly say that both them were better parents and better role models after the divorce than before it.

We often hear that love is about holding on to someone regardless...but sometimes love is also shown by letting go. (That's one you don't hear so much.)

Love is not obsession, though the two can sometimes be mistaken for one another.
"Need" can also be mistaken for love.

Love is not supposed to be damaging or invasive.

Love allows room for growth, freedom, privacy, and space.

In those cases it probably is the least bad option. I suppose I'm talking about much more marginal cases that might have survived with a fair amount of happiness, but modern life with it's different priorities (often plain selfishness) tempts people to look for that elusive something that will get a bit more out of life for them.

BTW, I had a terrible time with my parents divorcing as well, including a suicide attempt by my mother (to get attention I think). I grew up being the father figure to my younger brother. I was left with no father figure at all.

There's no doubt divorce impacts the entire family, and kids are especially vulnerable.

I think it's really rough for boys, who are often, as you were, left without a father figure, or, in some cases, a diminished father figure (one who is still around, but much less often.)

Sometimes during the time preceding the divorce, and well after, kids are often left to fend for themselves while mom and dad are battling it out with each other. I know this was true for me, too. I was the oldest child, and like you, I became the overseer, the care-giver, for my younger sisters.

Kids are like sponges...they soak everything up...take everything in, and yet they don't have any filters (life experience, coping tools) to sort out what they are seeing or hearing in a way that makes sense to them. I imagine it must have been a very scary thing for you to experience your mom's suicide attempt. It must have been very confusing, too.

Sometimes I think that when parents go over the edge (which can happen at any time- during a marriage, before, or during or after divorce), they take their kids with them (psychologically-speaking)...(not meaning to, usually)...and sometimes kids are strong enough to survive it all, and sometimes they end up having serious problems as a result.

I think parents sometimes get so involved in their own stuff that they forget that the kids are watching, absorbing, feeling, thinking, and learning.

I can still see my dad knocking the bedroom door in. That will always stay with me. Even though my dad thought it was all just a cry for help, for me it was very real and frightening.