I'm Really Getting Sick of this Line of Argument

**MadShangi** · 20th-February-2009

1.) That a woman should have all the rights when it comes to childbirth, because a woman's contribution far surpasses that of a man's, because women feel the pain of child birth, while all men get is an orgasm.

Like this idiot that posted on my YouTube page:

Wentshow:

"Nature hasn't given the sexes roles in reproduction that are inherently equal. To try to pretend that it is the case just to fulfill our legal theories is going to get us into deep troubles.

The man has the right to turn down sex; he might not like it, he might find it difficult, but that's his absolute right. She has a right to that too (presuming its consensual and not rape). Somehow I think men would be hurting more if women asserted that right more often . . .

and more men would be much grouchier and probably more pushy and even violent about wanting sex. In other words, the pain wouldn't be equally shared between the sexes. Once the child is conceived, the woman has the complete right whether or not to abort it. Why? Because even though it's genetically 50-50, her body's contribution in bringing it to term far surpasses the man's. The man had the completely pleasurable task of helping to create . . . a zygote. (cont)

could go on. The guy hasn't thought thought this through. I don't want to slant the argument too much, with ad hominum attacks, but IMHO, he's an idiot."

My resonse:

"
Man, you're 49-years-old and you still don't know. Men would be grouchier and probably be even more violent about wanting sex? You think this is Escape From New York, or something? Where all men are killers and rapists? People like you tell men that if they don't want kids, then we should keep it in our pants. But a woman could always close her legs, too. And if a man is lead to believe that his partner is infertile, and then all of a sudden she's pregnant. He should be able to out of that.

*opt out of that. And don't give me no bullshit about a woman's body's contribution in bringing it to term far surpasses the man's. Without sperm that womb is useless."

I also really love how abstinence is only a choice for men. Women are never told that if they don't want babies they should close their legs, it's always men that have to keep it in their pants.

**MadShangi** · 21st-February-2009

I'm pretty surprised there have been no replies to this. I'm pretty sure as men a lot of you are sick of this mind set. Men who don't want children are always told to keep it in their pants, but what about the women who get pregnant - but they don't want children? How come they don't have to keep their legs closed?

And I'm just sick of the end-all statement that men chouldn't have any choice, because women feel pain during childbirth. Christ, women also feel pain for breaking a nail.

Sorry, that's my anger talking there.

**Travis A. Ramirez** · 21st-February-2009

I am of the opinion that the decision of whether or not to bring a pregnancy to term ultimately lies with the woman/mother because it gestates inside her. That being said I also believe that a man should have the choice of whether or not to support/ accept the child as his. (THis is all in unmarried situations only, btw)

**Mr.Lomax** · 21st-February-2009

Yes, this argument is full of holes but the point I'm illustrating here is that neither contribution is greater or smaller than the other. The supremacists who claim otherwise need a reality check simply because they are clearly not using logic.

If you had a door and the only way to possibly open this door is with a certain key. Never mind explosives, credit cards, lock-pickers and even the worlds best locksmith/thief couldn't possibly open it.

How important is the key? Does the key's contribution to opening the door surpass the that of the door just staying shut?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you had a womb and the only way to possibly conceive a child through this womb is with a certain cell. Never mind artificial sperm, cloning, etc and even the worlds best scientists couldn't possibly use it to conceive.

How important is the sperm? Does the sperm's contribution to conceiving the child surpass the that of the womb just staying shut?

Also, I strongly dislike how a lot of people seem to believe that because we don't have the ability to give birth to a child that we somehow would be unable to bear the pain if we did have the ability. <anecdote>Many women I have spoken to actually said that childbirth isn't the most painful thing ever and that nearly everyone has experienced far worse.</anecdote>

**Celtic Druid** · 21st-February-2009

Quote from MadShangi

And I'm just sick of the end-all statement that men chouldn't have any choice, because women feel pain during childbirth. Christ, women also feel pain for breaking a nail.

Sorry, that's my anger talking there.

Firstly, childbirth is a choice. If women don't want the pain, then they should ensure contraception is top of their daily 'to do' list.

Also, given that many women are recipient of powerful painkilling drugs, one could rightfully ask, what pain? Or at worse, is it really quite so bad as they pretend? I've heard of a number of women comment that many women push (pardon the pun

) the "pain of childbirth" in order to make men feel guilty and thus feel eternally obligated to them.

Let's not forget the temporary pain of squeezing out those little 'annuities' means a lifetime of benefits, security and privileges for those women who are sperm connoisseurs (selecting fathers based on financial status).

**Travis A. Ramirez** · 21st-February-2009

It doesn't matter if one contribution is more important than the other (Neither is)

What matters is that women are the ones who carry the child, thus carry the trump card. In an ideal world this would not be so, but I live in reality.

In reality people control what goes on inside their bodies, even if what's inside them is half someone else's.

If a woman wishes to terminate a pregnancy against the wishes of her mate that is an unfortunate byproduct of living in a free society. We as men don't really bond with the child until it is born anyhow, because we can not feel it inside of us.

A woman completing a pregnancy against the wishes of her mate is far more problematic. Because men do not have a choice in whether or not the pregnancy is brough to term, I submit to you that the only possible chance at equity is for the "Man's Abortion". I.E. a man does not claim the child and carries no rights or responsibilities towards it.

**Mr.Lomax** · 21st-February-2009

The only problem with this I can see is that it could promote dropping responsibilities just as feminism did to women. It's just like telling a child that it's not their fault that they aren't performing well but rather it's the school's fault for not teaching them properly. To wit; it is possible that it may promote going against a man's honour and integrity.

However, there are some cases where this is obviously justified i.e when a woman tricks the man into fertilising her by deception. It is however difficult to prove.

**AdensDad** · 21st-February-2009

Quote from MadShangi

I'm pretty surprised there have been no replies to this. I'm pretty sure as men a lot of you are sick of this mind set. Men who don't want children are always told to keep it in their pants, but what about the women who get pregnant - but they don't want children? How come they don't have to keep their legs closed?

And I'm just sick of the end-all statement that men chouldn't have any choice, because women feel pain during childbirth. Christ, women also feel pain for breaking a nail.

Sorry, that's my anger talking there.

Women don't give birth to children, only the women who chose to give birth do. So giving birth is not an experience women go through, it is an experience women have the option to go through.

Actually the person you argued with buried himself because his own argument could easily have been used against him; the argument that nature made it this way or that way and nature is unfair.

Nature made it so that human beings are created by both men and women in a genetically equal distribution and the roles of each in creating a child are equal. The fact that women (who want babies) go through childbirth is another of those nature is unfair things so the girl should not whine about it being injust when men exercise equal rights to their kids.

The only thing that should matter is what is right for the child. When men raise children they tend to do it a little better than women. Male parents who take care of infants also tend gain slightly closer attachments from the infant than women can gain. I know, I've experienced this. Now there are some sociological reasons for this, and it does not mean men should be given preference over women in custody matters, but it's still a fact. My son preferred me from the moment we brought him home from the hospital and has always preferred me over his mother.

**MadShangi** · 22nd-February-2009

Some very good points here. I plan on doing a follow up YouTube post about this very subject and all your input is a great help. I'm tired of men being denied their rights or having any input in the lives of their children "because it's her body." That's not good enough.

**Incognito** · 22nd-February-2009

How can men speculate anything about birthing pains...seriously? Have any of you ever experienced it yourselves? I think not.

**Aug9th-LiveOrDie** · 22nd-February-2009

Quote from TERA

How can men speculate anything about birthing pains...seriously? Have any of you ever experienced it yourselves? I think not.

I know a lil somethin about physical pain
my son's mom told me nothing I went through diggin ditches, boxing, bricklayin etc could compare to it, and I called bullshit, she told me I was too god damn mean to understand that kind of pain

**MadShangi** · 22nd-February-2009

Quote from Aug9th-LiveOrDie

I know a lil somethin about physical pain
my son's mom told me nothing I went through diggin ditches, boxing, bricklayin etc could compare to it, and I called bullshit, she told me I was too god damn mean to understand that kind of pain

I think you have every right to call bullshit. 'Cause it does seem like bullshit to me, too. I really think there's something to women exaggerating the pain as a means of manipulation and sympathy-baiting. Women have such a flair for the histrionics, it's not even funny.

**CaptDMO** · 22nd-February-2009

Quote from TERA

How can men speculate anything about birthing pains...seriously? Have any of you ever experienced it yourselves? I think not.

Go visit a VA hospital. Get back to us on that.

**musicman.2** · 22nd-February-2009

Quote from MadShangi

I think you have every right to call bullshit. 'Cause it does seem like bullshit to me, too. I really think there's something to women exaggerating the pain as a means of manipulation and sympathy-baiting. Women have such a flair for the histrionics, it's not even funny.

http://www.data4science.net/essays.php?EssayID=804

Statistically, more men than women suffer this affliction, with the average person having about 10% chance of it happening to them

A friend of mine is a retired state police officer. He was shot point blank by a motorist. He told me his kidney stones hurt more than being shot.

I’ve had three ER nurses tell me almost the exact same words: “I’ve had kidney stones, and I’ve had natural child birth. The stones hurt far worse.” I guess that says it all.

**MadShangi** · 22nd-February-2009

Quote from musicman.2

http://www.data4science.net/essays.php?EssayID=804

Statistically, more men than women suffer this affliction, with the average person having about 10% chance of it happening to them

A friend of mine is a retired state police officer. He was shot point blank by a motorist. He told me his kidney stones hurt more than being shot.

I’ve had three ER nurses tell me almost the exact same words: “I’ve had kidney stones, and I’ve had natural child birth. The stones hurt far worse.” I guess that says it all.

Thanks for that. I always suspectd that passing a kidney stone would be more painful thn childbirth. I was getting kidney stones just reading all that and seeing those pictures. Ouch!