The function of this board

[bola]

I think we should have a discussion about the function of this board. Is it a MRA site with a strict policy of political correctness or is it a soundboard for men who are upset with the way things are.

For me this site is about institutionalized misandry, an organized hatred against the male sex by elements in the government, education system, media, the arts, and elsewhere that affects men's lives and civil rights in a big way. It's not about individual prejudice. It's the systemic nature of misandry in our society that's the problem.

Although the board doesn't promote misogynist views, that doesn't mean we cannot allow men to express them. There are all kinds of reasons why men may have such views: it could be ordinary prejudice, pent-up anger, reactive resentment. We also mustn't forget that when men start reading about these issues they get a large amount of disconcerting information to process, which may infuriate them. It's better to let these members express their emotions and views, especially since they often can't do that anywhere else. After a while they will typically calm down.

I also object to the idea that traditional views on gender roles constitute misogyny. This is a matter of opinion.

To enforce speech codes and strict rules about 'sexism', would devaluate this forum.

[Tyrael]

For me this site is about institutionalized misandry, an organized hatred against the male sex by elements in the government, education system, media, the arts, and elsewhere that affects men's lives and civil rights in a big way. It's not about individual prejudice. It's the systemic nature of misandry in our society that's the problem.

Thanks I used a part of your description for the Anti Misandry Report thread.

Although the board doesn't promote misogynist views, that doesn't mean we cannot allow men to express them. It's better to let these members express their emotions and views, especially since they often can't do that anywhere else. After a while they will typically calm down.

I also object to the idea that traditional views on gender roles constitute misogyny. This is a matter of opinion.

To enforce speech codes and strict rules about 'sexism', would devaluate this forum.

Yeah people should be able to express themselves freely. Censorship should be avoided and minimized. Anti Misandry should be a bastion of freedom and free speech for the people.

However people that clearly say things to instigate flame wars, trolls should be dealt with, because they can harm others and the reputation, credibility of AM.

[Percy]

I think we should have a discussion about the function of this board. Is it a MRA site with a strict policy of political correctness or is it a soundboard for men who are upset with the way things are.

Political correctness, no, of course not. But reasonable rules of playing the ball, not the man; avoiding cognitive distortion; avoiding informal fallacies; these ought to be standard masculine ways of discourse.

For me this site is about institutionalized misandry, an organized hatred against the male sex by elements in the government, education system, media, the arts, and elsewhere that affects men's lives and civil rights in a big way. It's not about individual prejudice. It's the systemic nature of misandry in our society that's the problem.

Agreed. Is it also about educating men and women, the general public who come here to discuss matters? Engaging people who have been raised in a feminist mind-set - such as women, boys coming out of an all -woman education, men who would have called themselves feminists 20 years ago?


Although the board doesn't promote misogynist views, that doesn't mean we cannot allow men to express them. There are all kinds of reasons why men may have such views: it could be ordinary prejudice, pent-up anger, reactive resentment. We also mustn't forget that when men start reading about these issues they get a large amount of disconcerting information to process, which may infuriate them. It's better to let these members express their emotions and views, especially since they often can't do that anywhere else. After a while they will typically calm down.

Is it reasonable to challenge the 'ordinary prejudice', being as you state in the para above that the board isn't about individual prejudice? Is there a difference? Is it ordinary when it is someone elses and individual when it is mine or yours? Or vice versa?

Isn't being 'infuriated', emotionalism? So emotionalism is allowed? Or is it to be only disallowed if women do it?

I also object to the idea that traditional views on gender roles constitute misogyny. This is a matter of opinion.

Do we differentiate between 'opinion' and 'ordinary prejudice'? What if someones opinion is prejudice?

To enforce speech codes and strict rules about 'sexism', would devaluate this forum.

So, anything goes?

[bola]

Is it reasonable to challenge the 'ordinary prejudice', being as you state in the para above that the board isn't about individual prejudice?

With individual prejudice and ordinary prejudice I mean the same thing. It should not be disallowed. The last thing we need is for men to get the same reproaches here as they get everywhere else.

Isn't being 'infuriated', emotionalism? So emotionalism is allowed? Or is it to be only disallowed if women do it?

I never said anything about emotion. -- Yes, I do think men should have special privileges on this board, it is not a normal board in that respect.

So, anything goes?

Primarily men should experience this board as welcoming and understanding. If they become too extreme in their expressions, we can address it. But even then it should be done by the male members. Again, this board, in my opinion, should not be about enforcing strict egalitarian views.

[shaazam]

most men that contribute to this forum have had direct and adverse experience with feminits and their crock of lies -feminitism

I think some heartfelt and true feelings have been expressed here by men but the die hard hard core feminits typically categorise this as misogyny- one of the strongest sins of men against wimin - we dare to hate them !!!

this was one of the gripes of Tera the reference to feminits as to a diirty toilet - but I think the dirtiest toilet in the world would be a gleaming hall compared to the base wimin that move against men in the Family Courts the feminit sacrificial hall for men

here men are divestd of their wordly assets, kids and future earnings wihich are neatly transferred to her with the minimum of fuss and post haste

[Timocrat]

I agree with you Bola, that we mustn't get into labeling traditional roles as misogyny. This board, as far as I know as I don't wish to speak for Marx or others, is meant as an outlet for men so that they can stand back and clear themselves of the non-stop agenda pushing ways of the blob state and its PC ways. The hope of many is to allow ideas and even actions to be brought to bear in the cause of our time.

What I feel you are fustrated by is the increasing encroachment of women who come on the board saying, "I'm not like the others "but." I long for more Seikies, Kims and Kellys who will handle these new comers and not back off from calling a spade a spade. Yet the good ones are outgun by numbers of women on many other forums and seem to be shying away from too much conflict.

What I feel is happening is some desperately want women in the movement as a whole (not just this forum) and give them more than the benefit of the doubt, as they do as Moxon book states, as they really can't get along with other men as they are, for they prefer effete ones or women who talk pretty and about their feelings.

Fruit Cake, ST, Jools, Tera all come bearing gifts of nice words and the debates are all the same of "don't hurt my feelings", "let's look at their feelings" and "I'm more in touch with others feeelings." In tera's case we know clearly she was bad mouthing the forum on a feminist forum and caught red handed. But we must somehow forgive and forget?? Not with me mind you, as the chances of catching indirect people is very hard thing, and that is why it is the modus operendi of effetes, who wage conflict with lots of plausable deniabilty to milk our nature of not blanketing others. It is our cross to bear, for honor demands it.

I think many years back we wanted flat out feminists to come on board and have it out in a grand debate. What we seem to have gotten is Greeks bearing gifts of "I'm not like the others "but." This is not a debate, it is a big blob of therapy in the name of changing men with the nanny ways of taming the angry young men, as mom should have done to you hot headed men long ago. The endless need for women to place males in the child position and teach them to bow to emotions (and thus their rule by superior use of emotions, seem inescapable for them and effete men like them).

One Girl placing us in this spot already is unmistakable, as a man like myself bringing up boys and teaching children every day , the idea of being treated like a boy, in a way that should be labeled with misandry as a taboo, is very gauling for someone who doesn't not know you at all. If I was ruled by emotions I would let loose with the angry of Perseus, but I would lose sight of the prize.

When emotions rule, playing the mother to boys (that are not boys) seems to be most women's first ploy when confronted on any argument. If you have ever argued with an old girlfriend they loved to take all debates to emotions, as they feel they are on solid ground. Effete men do the same, as they feel others will bow to their torant of emotional power. Women are not born more mature, but most must hold on to this idea for what philosophy or theology will they fall back on, if they gave up their Linus blanket?

Doc and I talked of this and felt that if we are to have women on our side they must be in their own group, and not in our organization for men always find a way to fight with other men to defend strange women (as they give them the benefit of the doubt well past due date). This may be the root of the long tradition of separting males and females, as some old now dead wise man saw what we must relearn once again.

They best thing you can do is shut such women out by not reading their endlessly repeating swan song of "let's talk about my feeligs" as I teach you to be a good boy by my emotionally lead way. I learned this with 3 older 60s sister and old girlfriends. If enough people stop talking to them they start to think anew, or go to find new people to be an attention whores with. Unfortunately other women don't satisfy this lust, for they all want the attention, so it is men they go to and play this little predictable game that is so boring now after so many women do the same thing again again again and still think themselves special and different. Not to mention the men who learned this from mom, or got it through her genes and do the same.

You must trust the other men on this board not be dooped by these types, and then deal with any need you have to constantly lock horns with such types, for then you are like the bug that must zombie-like keep heading endlessly to the bright bug killer lamp and one day you will get there.

[yohan]

I think we should have a discussion about the function of this board.
For me this site is about institutionalized misandry...

I think, this board has several functions, one of it, as you say correctly, is to keep a good discussion about disadvantages men are facing by law...forced military services, pension rights, health services, father's rights, divorce and alimony, prison, false allegations and so on.

This function is good working in this forum and also a considerable library is available about cases, which members collected for documentation out of research, news reports...etc.

Members should be able to find information about the existing legal situation in their own country. To know about your legal situation as a man means to be able to avoid certain mistakes in your life, which might cost you much money and might drag you into deep troubles.

In this sense, I think, this forum is OK. Plenty of stuff and references for studies available.

Although the board doesn't promote misogynist views, that doesn't mean we cannot allow men to express them.

I do not know how many men are truly all-out women hating, but I think, very few. It's often a misunderstanding in definition. Some men were seriously misused, and are now mistrusting and full of hate, but only for a short time.

I can only invite such men to talk openly about their feelings and do their best to see the world sooner or later in a better light. Hate destroys yourself, hate is guiding you into isolation and is good for nothing. You deserve a better future.

If such men are willing to listen and give reasonable replies, they should stay with this forum - there is useful advice possible, like to move away, to look for foreign wife, to consider certain rules when in contact with women to avoid false allegations, to consider overseas retirement and so on. Or to talk about other 'important' stuff, like motorcycles or dogs or technical stuff...

I also object to the idea that traditional views on gender roles constitute misogyny. This is a matter of opinion.

A married couple, with a working man, a wife mostly at home and doing some part/time and with children and elderly care, how can this be 'misogyny'?

------------------------------

The question is more, what is not good with this forum.

I think - just my opinion - this is the borderline between free speech and the right of men here in this forum to talk undisturbed about men's problems.

I think, men talking about their own problems related to women, or men who are talking about somewhat 'controversial, not PC' issues, like 'spousal rape' or laws different from the US-human rights view like Islamic law, should be better protected against scornful remarks and should not become the target of fun or being belittled as moron or loser.

Sometimes I ask myself, if this is really a forum for 'men's rights' or merely a 'meeting point' for all and everybody.

This forum does not really protect men - it also shows up with very little information about a relationship outside of the US/UK.

[Seattle Traditionalist]

As to the purpose of this board, first of all I am obviously biased in favor of my own opinions and agenda about how I think the world should be improved.

That said, I think the purpose of this board should be for like minded people, people who share a general idea of what is wrong with current Western societies and share similar views about how society should be in the future, can discuss and argue with each other as to how to make the world better, how we can defeat what we are opposed to and promote change in a way we think will make the world better.

Based on the fact that the focus of this board is combating discrimination against men and men tend to be more interested in political controversies in general, the great majority of members here are men. However, I don't see any reason why we should try to exclude the voices and the concerns of women. I do not think that taking into account the needs of women is contrary to the goal of eliminating discriminatoin against men. I reject the idea that the needs of women and the needs of men are in a natural conflict against each other.

I think the women members of this forum are an asset to our movement and taking into consideration their concerns makes our movement better and more attractive as a viable and serious political movement.

There is the issue of what the fundamental beliefs of the members here are, or what beliefs a member here should have in order to "qualify" as being a legitimate member of the group. Censorship is always a difficult issue to deal with. If there is someone here blatantly in favor of feminism and argues for mainstream feminist beliefs in post after post, I can see how that can be thought of as detrimental to the goals of this forum. If the social pressure here is strongly opposed to such feminist views and people with such views are driven out because they find this environment unfriendly, then the integrity of this forum can be preserved without censorship or bans. The heavy handed tool of official censorship should only be used if the purpose of this forum is threatened by a large amount of commentary that destroys the ability of the "true" men's rights activists to productively debate issues with each other. Censorship is harmful to productive and honest open debate and should only be used to protect the basic functioning of the purpose of this forum from a real threat against it.

According to my priorities, I am mostly concerned about the social functioning of society, about the abilities of men and women to form healthy long term relationships with each other and create an environment where children's needs will be best protected and fulfilled.

I am concerned about divorce, out-of-wedlock births, child abuse, and the hostilities that men and women have towards each other that inhibits their ability to form positive realtionships with the oppositie sex.

I am also in favor of traditional gender roles, and I am in favor of society being structured in the way it was before the 1960s feminist revolution. I see the 1960s feminist revolution as being the beginning of the serious social problems that Western society is suffering from, and I hope to reverse the social changes that feminism created.

I view the hatred against men or the institutionalized discrimination against men as being a by product of the destruction of romantic relationships between men and women that was started by the feminist revolution. I don't view hatred against men as being a phenemenon by itself or seperated from wider social pathologies. Hatred against men is a byproduct of family breakdown, so it is one manifestation of family breakdown among many manifestations of family breakdown. Misandry cannot be defeated in isolation from dealing with other social problems. Misandry can only be defeated if the feminist generated social problems as a whole are defeated.

So, my priority is to try to reestablish the patriarchy from the past and this will produce innumerable social benefits, one of which will be the elimination of the anti-male prejudice that is so prevalent in society today.

I am hoping that my views can be considered to be consistent with the overall goals that this forum uses as the baseline of who can be considered a legitimate member of the group.

I am in favor of not censoring other members here who disagree with me on a number of different issues, and at the same time, I don't think that I should be censored because I disagree with other members here on a number of different issues. Freedom of speech works both ways, of course.

I do worry about the mainstream political correctness here, or what I have called group think, being enforced through infractions and banning. Let the members here fight with each other in the battle of ideas, I would advocate, but the heavy hand of the administrators should not be taking sides with their infraction and banning power.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Marx]

I think we should have a discussion about the function of this board. Is it a MRA site with a strict policy of political correctness or is it a soundboard for men who are upset with the way things are.

By all accounts, it is supposed to be sounding board to allow guys to vent off their frustrations. That does not mean it invites hateful or angry people who want to use misandry as their excuse for hating others.

For me this site is about institutionalized misandry, an organized hatred against the male sex by elements in the government, education system, media, the arts, and elsewhere that affects men's lives and civil rights in a big way. It's not about individual prejudice. It's the systemic nature of misandry in our society that's the problem.

I would go along with that.

Although the board doesn't promote misogynist views, that doesn't mean we cannot allow men to express them.

But on that, it makes us as bad as the feminists. If we turn a blind eye, or condone it - what moral highground do we have?

There are all kinds of reasons why men may have such views: it could be ordinary prejudice, pent-up anger, reactive resentment. We also mustn't forget that when men start reading about these issues they get a large amount of disconcerting information to process, which may infuriate them. It's better to let these members express their emotions and views, especially since they often can't do that anywhere else. After a while they will typically calm down.

Well I'd agree with that.

I also object to the idea that traditional views on gender roles constitute misogyny. This is a matter of opinion.

I agree. Depending on the definition.

To enforce speech codes and strict rules about 'sexism', would devaluate this forum.

Which is why I've always tried to keep it so people can self moderate. People can still say their views without resorting to swearing and name-calling, surely? We all have moments where we let fly, but for the most part - people should be able to contain themselves.
If this board simply turns off all codes-of-conduct, and eventually gets over-run by troll-like attitudes, then this board will be responsible for proving the feminist definition of man as true. The very nature of this board (anti - misandry) will be void and instead be a resource for hateful feminists to referr to when 'proving' their claims that man is abusive and angry and all things bad.

it also shows up with very little information about a relationship outside of the US/UK.

We're working on this, we're actively trying to expand the language barrier. So far we've only got Germany covered, but perhaps you could help out with your locale?

[byslexic_danana]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: in my opinion, the misogyny on this forum is not considerable enough to be worrying about. Things are fine the way they are. Even when considering the fact that those with misogynistic views are more likely to express them than are women with misandric views likely to express these on other forums (because men are silenced, when it comes to any remotely negative views about women, pretty much everywhere else), the misogyny here seems no higher in level than does the misandry on GENERAL forums. I don't have a problem with 'TERA', but her frequent 'this is more like a misogyny board' comments do grow rather tedious, as it suggests she doesn't fully understand the situation we're in; i.e. that the term is overused, and that this is the only place for many of us to vent.

I think there should be limits, but opinions as to how the board should operate, lean more towards total freedom of speech, then political correctness. Men are deserving of a place to vent their more controversial opinions, without fear of censorship. However, if it came to a situation whereby 75% of members were expressing misogynistic views in 75% of their posts, well, Houston, we'd have a problem.

Although, then again, hatred hasn't stopped feminism from gaining such a following. It's a tough one; I think I'd need to think more about this one. What I would adovcate is that we all keep things in proportion; ONE OR TWO bad experiences with women does not necessarily mean that ALL, or even MOST, women are bad. If I could suggest one thing, it'd be that we all think before making generalisations about women; women generalising about men being something that annoys us all. I've been treated badly by numerous women, but I still refuse to generalise about women, thus far.

Experiences should not be ignored, but don't allow spur-of-the-moment anger to cloud one's better judgement, I say....

[Celtic Druid]

The forums origins were a sounding board, but invariably for those frustrated men who intially sought refuge here, they then began to temper their anger into more productive outlets to alleviate their beleaguered position. Thus for some, a metamorphosis from angrily meandering to commiting themselves to effecting some positive change, took shape. The birth of an MRA!

Some men joined here already 'self-aware.' This isn't a choice for all of course. This forum is different things to different people. It shouldn't require everybody to adhere to a blinkered template of conformity that 'only' reflects the majority. We musn't become an echo chamber!

I must differentiate between those antagonistic types who keep bleating the same feminist rhetoric ad nauseam, and those members who support the main theme of the site (antimisandry) but differ on smaller points of contention. The healthy viability of any progressive forum is to engage in vigorous discourse. Where it all goes predictably awry - is when civility deteriorates and profanity entwined with charachter assassination - overwhelms common sense. The average member here is intelligent enough to rise above such nonsense.

The 'function' of this board is manifold, it can be a platform for a man to vent, through to those that wish to congregate and forge political inroads regarding mens issues.

[Garak]

But on that, it makes us as bad as the feminists. If we turn a blind eye, or condone it - what moral highground do we have?

..but how do we define misogyny?

To say that women and men are different is not misogyny in my opinion but others don't share that opinion.

To say, for example, that women are allowing themselves to be used to force destruction on western nations is not misogyny in my opinion, but others don't share that opinion.

To reveal the reason why women are chosen to force above said destruction is because of a tendency towards selfishness is not misogyny but....you get the point. Those who wish to destroy western society play to the base nature of women...and they are succeeding. We men can be destructive as well but we go to war to PROTECT women and children, not to harm them. See the difference?

It is my view that men make better leaders because men are not so likely to turn against women as women are to turn against men. It is this same reason why those who wish to destroy western society use women to acheive that goal. Misogyny? I don't think so...but am I standing alone?

[byslexic_danana]

..but how do we define misogyny?

To say that women and men are different is not misogyny in my opinion but others don't share that opinion.

To say, for example, that women are allowing themselves to be used to force destruction on western nations is not misogyny in my opinion, but others don't share that opinion.

To reveal the reason why women are chosen to force above said destruction is because of a tendency towards selfishness is not misogyny but....you get the point. Those who wish to destroy western society play to the base nature of women...and they are succeeding. We men can be destructive as well but we go to war to PROTECT women and children, not to harm them. See the difference?

It is my view that men make better leaders because men are not so likely to turn against women as women are to turn against men. It is this same reason why those who wish to destroy western society use women to acheive that goal. Misogyny? I don't think so...but am I standing alone?

No, you're not standing alone.

[chevalier]

Look gus there is nothing wrong with this board. Yes sometimes some of us may say things in a fit of anger due to the tough situations many of us are in.

And regardless of what Tera and ST say misogyny is not prevelant here. And when it does happen then we should cut the guy who did it some slack.

The misogynists we have had here have all been dealt with. First we tried talking sense into them about how their anger at women was bad for them. Then we told them how it wasn't good for the board and the MRM in general. We have given these people chance after chance just like we have done with the feminists who have come here.

So all this concern over bannings and infractions really is moot. As it doesn't happen with enough frequency to be a problem.

Since I have been here everybody who was banned was given multiple chances to knock off their BS. And THEN they got banned not before.

ST wants to make a big deal about some stupid infraction then I guess so be it. But if ST had her way anybody who spoke ill of women would be banned but anybody who spoke ill of men and towed the PC line would do well.

On one hand she says that we can't muffle free speech then on the other calls us mysogynists and says we shouldn't talk in a certain manner.

She is pissed that she got an infraction but at the same time doesn't want us to say what we want how we want.

Yes the men who just downright hate women and spew out hate and violence should be gotten rid of just like the feminists who come here to stir the pot. Free speech only goes so far.

If I called my wife a bitch I could go to jail so to say that anybody anywhere can say anything is a bit naive.

The board works fine for our purposes for those who don't like it ....well the door isn't locked from the outside and they are welcome to leave or stay at their leisure.

[Garak]

No, you're not standing alone.

Thanks