On the MS. Issue I wouldn't fuss over it. Here in the south we also use it for women who are elder and no longer have a husband but we attach it to their first name as in Miss Mae or Miss Harriett it is a term of respect here. I have heard that some would like to see prenomials dropped altogether or a gender neutral version used. I think it is nonsense to attempt to erase every vestige of gender from every little thing the feminist claim to celebrate womanhood yet attempt to take away all that mark them as such. And one of the things that feminism has changed that people don't realize is the concept of honor and the ability to defend both ones own honor and that of someone weaker than themselves. Sometimes a good old fistfight to change someones attitude is necessary.

Aye. Indeed Chev. There is Mrs for married women, and Miss for unmarried and Ms perhaps for those who dont know..

For men, there is the Mr. for both married and unmarried..

And it seems that sometimes "Master" is used for young lads..

So, typical terms of address would be, for the mythical "Bates" family..

Mr and Mrs Bates, their daughter Miss bates and their son Master bates..

It is my understanding that Ms. is the correct way to address a woman if you don't know whether she is married. If she is very young you can assume she is unmarried and address her as "Miss." If she is older and unmarried then I think Ms. is correct but maybe that's wrong and she is still a Miss? I don't know. Just today I was helping someone write a formal letter. When I suggested to use "Ms." for the addressee the woman I was helping said some people are offended by that. I didn't know what to say except that I think that title is correct. I recently got some junk mail addressed to "Ms. (my husband's name)." It was kind of amusing but I didn't know who it was supposed to be for. Lol.

I would prefer a more gender neutral language, but it is a mouthful to substitute "person" for "man" everywhere. It isn't a big deal to me. But I do often use grammatically incorrect plural pronouns (ie. they) in place of singular pronouns (ie. he or she) because I prefer that style for informal writing.

Before the Victorian era the "top dogs" in the household were the master and the mistress.

Both Mrs and Miss are contractions of mistress.

Mister is a feminisation of master.

Language is subject to fashion.

Wouldn't you agree Mistress Myce & Mistress Annette?

Quote from Yan Yan

Before the Victorian era the "top dogs" in the household were the master and the mistress. Both Mrs and Miss are contractions of mistress. Mister is a feminisation (?) of master. Language is subject to fashion. Wouldn't you agree Mistress Myce & Mistress Annette?

I recall getting birthday cards addressed to 'master' when I was a youngster! And what about 'sir' and 'madam' as vocative forms of address, and 'messrs.' (messieurs) for groups of business people or crowds.

The French use 'madame' corresponding to our 'missus' for mature women and otherwise 'madamoiselle' for 'miss'. Seems like many of our forms of address seem to be derived from the French.

Interesting...

What surprised me most was the initial thread title..

Its most certainly regarded, in the UK at least, as a sign of some severe "Milly Tant" style feminiazi if a woman uses the term "Ms" about herself..

Ms was taken by the feminists as the preferred term of self-address, as it did not indicate marital status..

Of course, married feminists would still state "Mrs"..

So, it was always obvious that a "Ms" was a frustrated bat with a bee in her bonnet..

I wonder if that lover of feminist style misandry, Anne Widecombe, refers to herself as a Miss and Mrs, or a Ms?

Its not even neccesary to use the terms.

There is no reason why we need to specify the gender, or the marital status, at all..

For a man, its easy..

Simple "mr bates" covers all bases..

For the woman..

One simply needs to know the initial first name..

A bates. Is a quite acceptable term of address dont you think?

Or,

Angela Bates..

69 Cadbury Alley,

Lower Groping,

Maidenhead..

etc..

It may be polite to use the correct "miss, mrs, ms.. etc"..

But, it is regarded as possibly very impolite if a person chooses the wrong one..

Quote from chevalier

On the MS. Issue I wouldn't fuss over it. Here in the south [of the US, presumably?] we also use it for women who are elder and no longer have a husband but we attach it to their first name as in Miss Mae or Miss Harriett it is a term of respect here ...

Sounds sensible

Quote from Yan Yan

Before the Victorian era the "top dogs" in the household were the master and the mistress.

Both Mrs and Miss are contractions of mistress.

Mister is a feminisation of master.

Language is subject to fashion.

Wouldn't you agree Mistress Myce & Mistress Annette?

Mistress Annette, at your service!



(Drex shall be Master Bates....)

I shall aim my respect carefully.. And hope I dont "miss"..

I'd just like to remind everyone here that I've created a Cultural Marxist dictionary on Mensactivism Wiki.

Why not add something!

If a woman insists that I address her as Ms, I always respond by telling her that Mrs is short for Missus and that is what is said, Mr is short for mister and that is what is said and Ms is short for miserable and if she insists......

Quote from Exposing Feminism

I'd just like to remind everyone here that I've created a Cultural Marxist dictionary on Mensactivism Wiki.

Why not add something!

Greets EF, drop in on the Introductions forum and let us know you better