Quote from Stan

My kid was fine predivorce. He was 9 when papers were filed. From then onward he has had a therapist and is now 16 and has not seen Dad for visitation in over a year. Weekly or biweekly therapy at age 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16....and counting.

They are not even working on the parental alienation!!!

The court orders say that each parent is to alternate taking him in to his therapist. The most recent therapist won't allow this, only the Mom can bring the child in for the last three years. My lawyer said we should do contempts of court on her. Hey I cannot sue every person.

Yes, well, if they identify parental alienation as a problem then they would be saying that dad can replace the therapist. They won't do that.

Quote from Garak

Yes, experts create problems so they can stay employed.

A perfectly healthy kid can walk into a therapists office and come out with 5 syndromes which need to be treated by weekly visits to the therapist and daily prescription drugs.

That's so true. This kind of fraud is among the many things I hope to expose. An interesting book to read is a book called "Talking Back To Ritalin" and "Talking Back To Paxil."

Quote from Garak

Yes, well, if they identify parental alienation as a problem then they would be saying that dad can replace the therapist. They won't do that.

Get this...the therapist is about 4' 10". My son started out smaller than her. Now he is over a foot taller than her, lol. He is 16, learning to drive (I think) and I still pay my exe for nonexistent daycare each week which I cannot get changed.

It's a Divorce Industry thing. It never ends. And I have to keep paying for it.

Quote from MadShangi

That's so true. This kind of fraud is among the many things I hope to expose. An interesting book to read is a book called "Talking Back To Ritalin" and "Talking Back To Paxil."

Indeed, the whole "drug your kids into submission" craze is just out of control.

Put mothers into the workforce, then take away the fathers and everyone benefits except for parents. Drug companies, brain fuckers*, government and it's agencies. It's almost as if this was all planned.

Here we are though, back at square one, women don't wanna work (there are exceptions). Well, could that be why it was decided in the past to capitalize on gender roles?

* Brain fuckers refers to therapist, psychologists, counselors, etc...

Quote from Stan

My kid was fine predivorce. He was 9 when papers were filed. From then onward he has had a therapist and is now 16 and has not seen Dad for visitation in over a year. Weekly or biweekly therapy at age 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16....and counting.

They are not even working on the parental alienation!!!

The court orders say that each parent is to alternate taking him in to his therapist. The most recent therapist won't allow this, only the Mom can bring the child in for the last three years. My lawyer said we should do contempts of court on her. Hey I cannot sue every person.

That's somewhat similar to my own experience. However, I did have real problems, but the real problems were being obscured by a number of false diagnosis from people who hadn't even spoken with me for five minutes. A cocktail of drugs later, and I'm even more fucked up than what I started. I remember when I was real young, my mother took me to a psychiatrist, it was supposed to be about me, but it was my mother talking about HERSELF, and she broke down into tears after bringing up her brother's suicide (which had nothing to do with me or my problems in the slightest). As I can recall, not once were my problems even brought up, but that meeting resulted in ME being put on medication. I basically going to a doctor because my MOM had problems. :P While all these appointments were supposed to be about me, instead they would be about her... complaining about my dad, etc.

I willing to bet real money that a good majority of all these kids being diagnosed with ADD or Asperger's are really just pawns caught up in the game of parental alienation.

Quote from Stan

Get this...the therapist is about 4' 10". My son started out smaller than her. Now he is over a foot taller than her, lol. He is 16, learning to drive (I think) and I still pay my exe for nonexistent daycare each week which I cannot get changed.

It's a Divorce Industry thing. It never ends. And I have to keep paying for it.

Yes, they all scratch each others backs.

A psychologist testifies in court that child A is fucked up. The court gladly accepts this testimony with zero proof and adds it into the court order. Wanna bet some judges get kickbacks?

Even without kickbacks though, the more that is in the court order, the more power the state holds over your..er...their children.

Once in therapy the child is put on a drug which the drug companies probably give kickbacks for. Any parental resistance to the drug would be walking a fine line with the courts and their mafia, Child Protective Services.

Quote from MadShangi

That's somewhat similar to my own experience. However, I did have real problems, but the real problems were being obscured by a number of false diagnosis from people who hadn't even spoken with me for five minutes. A cocktail of drugs later, and I'm even more fucked up than what I started. I remember when I was real young, my mother took me to a psychiatrist, it was supposed to be about me, but it was my mother talking about HERSELF, and she broke down into tears after bringing up her brother's suicide (which had nothing to do with me or my problems in the slightest). As I can recall, not once were my problems even brought up, but that meeting resulted in ME being put on medication. I basically going to a doctor because my MOM had problems. :P While all these appointments were supposed to be about me, instead they would be about her... complaining about my dad, etc.

I willing to bet real money that a good majority of all these kids being diagnosed with ADD or Asperger's are really just pawns caught up in the game of parental alienation.

My belief with ADD/ADHD is that modern society just can't stand two thing:

- Discipline
- Boys and their energy

It used to be that a boys energy was celebrated and fathers (the primary disciplinarian) would keep that energy in line. Without fathers though (and parental alienation making matters worse), little boys have no outlet and when they get an outlet, most mothers aren't capable of dealing with it. So they medicate them. The schools are just as bad.

I also believe that children respond to men in a whole different way than they do women. So when a man says no, it is treated more seriously than when a woman does. This is true of boys and girls.

Quote from MadShangi

That's somewhat similar to my own experience. However, I did have real problems, but the real problems were being obscured by a number of false diagnosis from people who hadn't even spoken with me for five minutes. A cocktail of drugs later, and I'm even more fucked up than what I started. I remember when I was real young, my mother took me to a psychiatrist, it was supposed to be about me, but it was my mother talking about HERSELF, and she broke down into tears after bringing up her brother's suicide (which had nothing to do with me or my problems in the slightest). As I can recall, not once were my problems even brought up, but that meeting resulted in ME being put on medication. I basically going to a doctor because my MOM had problems. :P While all these appointments were supposed to be about me, instead they would be about her... complaining about my dad, etc.

I willing to bet real money that a good majority of all these kids being diagnosed with ADD or Asperger's are really just pawns caught up in the game of parental alienation.

Well thank goodness you can now see what happened so clearly, so that you can more quickly and completely get past as much of it as possible.

Quote from Garak

I also believe that children respond to men in a whole different way than they do women. So when a man says no, it is treated more seriously than when a woman does. This is true of boys and girls.

My personal experiences back up your view 100%

One of my daughter's told her mother she 'hated' her... she was only 7 years old. It wasn't connected to me. But my kids have NEVER spoken to me in that manner, ever. The same daughter who said that has defended me to her mother (I heard this while on the phone, talking to her). Although, due to extremely restrictive access to my own flesh and blood, we have since moved somewhat further away - but we still have a very good relationship, considering.

My Sister is a single mother (I make no attempts to hide, she was in an abusive relationship, I saw the blood stains up the walls with my own eyes). The guy she was with was a jerk.

Anyway, her daughter has a mouth on her, although I've witnessed it improve over time.

Because she can't always retain full control - she will threaten her daughter with "I'll tell Uncle Karl what you've done/you're doing..." If she then stops her behaviours, I pretend not to have heard... but if she continues, I'll hear; "Karl... Guess what...?" and that is my cue to boom a raised voice (not shouting) toward my neice.

When she is pestering her mother, she will change from shouting at her (in my absense as far as she's aware) to whispering in her mother's ear.

We love each other a lot, and she is good as gold when I take her with me to see my kids - she never complains or misbehaves at all.

I don't consider it a fear, because she will poke fun at me as much as I poke fun at her (e.g. I call her snotface, she calls me big bum or big belly and other things 5yr old kids call people). But she knows the line too. She knows if she's been pestering her mom, Uncle Karl will be upset with her. And she tries hard to avoid that.

I don't pretend to be her Dad (or the role of), but the difference of having a man around her is very, very much apparent.

Quote from Marx

My personal experiences back up your view 100%

One of my daughter's told her mother she 'hated' her... she was only 7 years old. It wasn't connected to me. But my kids have NEVER spoken to me in that manner, ever. The same daughter who said that has defended me to her mother (I heard this while on the phone, talking to her). Although, due to extremely restrictive access to my own flesh and blood, we have since moved somewhat further away - but we still have a very good relationship, considering.

My Sister is a single mother (I make no attempts to hide, she was in an abusive relationship, I saw the blood stains up the walls with my own eyes). The guy she was with was a jerk.

Anyway, her daughter has a mouth on her, although I've witnessed it improve over time.

Because she can't always retain full control - she will threaten her daughter with "I'll tell Uncle Karl what you've done/you're doing..." If she then stops her behaviours, I pretend not to have heard... but if she continues, I'll hear; "Karl... Guess what...?" and that is my cue to boom a raised voice (not shouting) toward my neice.

When she is pestering her mother, she will change from shouting at her (in my absense as far as she's aware) to whispering in her mother's ear.

We love each other a lot, and she is good as gold when I take her with me to see my kids - she never complains or misbehaves at all.

I don't consider it a fear, because she will poke fun at me as much as I poke fun at her (e.g. I call her snotface, she calls me big bum or big belly and other things 5yr old kids call people). But she knows the line too. She knows if she's been pestering her mom, Uncle Karl will be upset with her. And she tries hard to avoid that.

I don't pretend to be her Dad (or the role of), but the difference of having a man around her is very, very much apparent.

I can't speak for you neice but I would say that in general it is a mixture of respect and fear.

In the area of respect:

With my daughter I was able to potty train her because she respected me enough to take my commands seriously.

"Alexis, go potty" was usually met with compliance. Within a few days dirty diapers were down to one a day.

That was almost 2 years ago. Her mother though, has yet to get the same respect out of her. She simply won't go potty for her mother or her grandmother but she will for her grandfather but he is rarely home so she still isn't potty trained.

I told her mother exactly how I did it and she has tried but Alexis just doesn't respond the same way.

In the area of fear:

Well, let's just say that when a child knows a parent will punish them, not play mind games or make promises they won't keep...they tend to understand that actions have consequences. Fear drives good behavior, IMO.

If not for fear the planet would be in a constant state of warfare, fear keeps nations from attacking each other. In other words, it drives good behavior.

Garak, I understand your point regarding fear - but I'm talking about fear in slightly different context. I mean 'outright' fear of me as an indivual. She knows I will punish her if she misbehaves.

I've made her sit in a corner for a while to cool off. Her mom can't. The screaming drives her mad and she crumbles. It doesn't work on me though. I just keep repeating myself until she hears me "Calm down... stop the silliness... the longer you scream, the longer you will stay here looking at the same corner... when you calm down, you can get up..."

She has not had a tantrum like that in over a year now...

Women are finding out that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. Work is work, whether you're an at-home mom or a career woman.

Quote from Marx

Garak, I understand your point regarding fear - but I'm talking about fear in slightly different context. I mean 'outright' fear of me as an indivual. She knows I will punish her if she misbehaves.

I've made her sit in a corner for a while to cool off. Her mom can't. The screaming drives her mad and she crumbles. It doesn't work on me though. I just keep repeating myself until she hears me "Calm down... stop the silliness... the longer you scream, the longer you will stay here looking at the same corner... when you calm down, you can get up..."

She has not had a tantrum like that in over a year now...

We are talking about the same kind of fear actually. The fear of justifiable consequences.

That outright fear is just a lie spun to take power from parents. I don't know that it was the feminists who started it but I know it was because of their influence that idiotic ideas like "your child should never fear you" came to the mainstream. This kinder, gentler world imagined by the "just talk to your kids" crowd is anything but kinder or gentler.

If your child didn't fear the consequences of his/her actions, there would be no way to control them. Fear is not the bad word modern society has made it into. Fear is as necessary to life as love and respect are.

Since we are talking about personal experiences. I will tell you that I usually give the choice of a spanking or standing in the corner. On the rare occasion the corner is chosen, it is understood that the punishment be respected (no throwing a fit) or the spanking will occur and back to the corner they will go. That's just my way though.

Quick note:

With Alexis potty training though, punishment was never needed nor was it ever considered.

She was barely 2 at the time. I was fully prepared for it to fail so I wasn't going to push the issue. I was very suprised it went so well. It was her idea though, she brought me a pair of her sisters panties to put on her a few times so I thought I would give the potty training a try. If it had failed, it would have been no big deal and certainly not worthy of punishment.