Personally, I believe that in the case of giving birth naturally, that is exactly what it should b...natural.
I wasn't in the position to give birth to any of my three children naturally, although, as far as I did get into labor with my first, I hadn't required OR requested any pain medications. I just don't believe that if it is possible to give birth naturally, one should be hindering the baby as well as the natural birth process, with unnecessary drugs and needles.
The female body was created to accomodate the birth process, unless other complications arise that require surgery, I don't believe any drugs whatsoever should be used.

I entirely agree with you on this. The way i see it is that over a length of time, the human body adapts...or mutates, depending on your way of thinking. If we, as a culture and group within a window of time, continue to make the birth process easier and easier the female body will eventually (i'm talking multiple hundreds of generations) adapt to accomodate the new drugs and medical procedures. Meaning, that in time, women could find themselves literally incapable of birthing a child because their bodies have changed - knowing that science will do it for them.

This is undeniable as it's happened in the past with other areas of human life. For example, chinese women used to continually bind their feet. Now, generations upon generations later, chinese women have 'naturally' small feet.

There remains a possibility that women's bodies could change similarly... eliminating any chance of a 'natural' birth process (by today's standards).

I decided to create a new topic and make it a sticky, because the problem it deals with is very irritating, yet still very pervasive - in the media, press releases and offcial reports of various organizations, etc. To make a long story short, it is mentality, hence the name "The Bias".

What I'd like to achieve with this thread is to expose this misguided mentality as much as possible; and the best way to do that seems to be to start with collection of quotes from articles, where blatant ignorance of men's suffering (or a much greater toll a given problem takes on men) is evident - and the suffering/toll of minority of victims (usually women) is heavily highlighted.

So, what I'm asking you to do, is merely that when the next time you'll read some article stating that "1000 people died, including 10 women", you quote it here. Don't forget to cite the source, and provide the link, if possible.

Below I copied a few posts we talked about already in other threads, but they also fit in this sticky thread perfectly.

Don't hesitate to contribute...

Hillary Clinton at her speech to the First Ladies' Conference on Domestic Violence in San Salvador on November 17, 1998]

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat."

Human Rights Watch (A Face and a Name: Civilian Victims of Insurgent Groups in Iraq)]“When I was in Najaf, I met many women who had lost their sons, husbands, brothers and I was very moved by their desire for peace,” she said in the profile. “It’s the women who have suffered the most under this occupation. And that’s why it’s women who want peace the most.

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton's logic: women are the primary victims of war because their husbands and sons are killed.

BTW, I understand that this woman suffered a lot, don't get me wrong. but like Herb here said one time: women are the only group which claims they are the biggest victims by actually surviving something...

Unlike their male counterparts...

Amnesty International (Protecting rights in Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam during the military emergency)]6. Protection of women and children

Women and children are disproportionately the victims of conflict, internal or otherwise. In the context of armed independence struggles in NAD and elsewhere in Indonesia, torture, including rape and other forms of sexual abuse of women and girls, have been committed by members of the security forces as a form of intimidation and as punishment for their, or their relatives’, alleged involvement with or support of armed opposition groups. Thousands of women have been widowed or children orphaned because husbands and fathers have been unlawfully killed during the course of operations by the security forces in these regions. Women and children have also been among the many thousands of people that have been displaced by the actions of security forces.

How can "women and children be disproportionately the victims of conflict" if there are at least as many their own men who are unlawfully killed in the same conflict?

ICRC (People on War Project)]Men were created for war, but women weren't. You find that, in the end, women are the ones who suffer most. They are widowed, they loose their husbands and children, they are shot while pregnant, so they are much affected.

...don't even need to comment...

...and of course, it just wouldn't be perfect without implying good ol' male-guilt:

Catherine Bertini (the executive director of the World Food Programme)]“Men wage war. Women and children suffer the consequences,” she said.

...about refugees in 1995 in Rwanda (where one of the biggest genocides in history occured in 1994);

ICRC - Strengthening protection in war: a search for professional standards, chapter "Field Presence", page 57,]The situatioon began to grow tense on 18 APril 1995. Four camps (Kibeho, Ndago, Munimi and Kamana) were encircled by military forces intent on closing them down. This caused a wave of panic in which several people, including at least one woman and eight children, were trampled to death. Medecins sans frontieres (MSF) and UNHCR reported the death of some 20 people.

...some 20 people dead in a completely indiscriminate human stampedo - among those dead, 1 single woman. Let's highlight that, yes, who cares about at least 10 dead men. And this coming from the ICRC... Sad. :?

New Age International25 die in two bus crashes in Shimla

At least 25 people, including women and children, were killed in two separate bus crashes in the northern Indian state of Himachal Pradesh, the police said.Thirteen of them were killed and six more injured when a passenger bus was buried under a mud slide in a freak accident in the scenic Kullu valley, 250 kilometres from state capital of Shimla. ‘There were 19 persons on the bus. All 13 bodies have been extracted from the mud. Two children were among the dead. In the second accident, 12 people, including four women, were killed when their passenger bus lost control and rolled down a deep ravine in the mountainous state’s Palampur district, a police spokesman in Shimla said.

..

well reading the above ,it's nice to know that my great great uncle wasn't really a victim in "The Great war" and that the real victims who suffered were E .Panhurst and her mob, handing out White feathers to men not in uniform . How those women must have suffered!!!

What a great Idea LG, glad you thought of it...

World War I Stress of Soldiers ("Left Click" or "Right Click & Save As" to dwnld video (1,38mb)

BTW, nothing disgusting in the video, it's about combat stress reaction (shellshock).

For your bandwidth's sake, i've copied this file to my website. It can be located here.