I've been kicking this idea around in my head for about a week. I was chatting with Agin (for those of you who know him ). We had previously been talking about a book I had mentioned I was going to write someday about abuse, and then the conversation wound around to manginas. And that's when the idea popped into my head. Like I don't have enough things I want to do!!

Anyway, I've been reading about something called "betrayal trauma", and how it can cause a person to lose their memory when they have been betrayed by someone who is in a caregiving position for them. It mainly had to do with children, and mainly with betrayal by someone they were dependent upon, so that they couldn't really call the person on it, because the care could be taken away. The only other alternative if the child is to keep his or her sanity is to repress the betrayal. (Or is it suppress? I always get those two mixed up). I was curious about why I had almost 100% amnesia that covered probably 80% of my lifetime.

The author started out the book by describing an experience she had on a plane. She was flying back from a conference, and the plane was coming in for a landing at Denver airport. She happened to look out the window and saw another plane almost directly beneath them! Of course, it terrified her. The flight attendant had been going through the landing instructions, and the airplane suddenly started climbing again. After a short pause, the attendant continued on with her instructions as if nothing had happened.

The author looked around. No one was panicked. No one seemed to have noticed anything. She began to question herself. Had she really just experienced that? The plane landed, and everyone started filing off just as calmly as could be. She caught the eye of another therapist who had been at the same conference, and he asked her if the plane had suddenly began climbing after starting the descent, and if they had landed in the opposite direction than was usual. She confirmed that it had.

But if he had not confirmed her experience, what would have happened? She would think, "That can't have happened. I must have dozed off and dreamed it or something." And she would have forgotten it. But how would it affect her in the future? Would she get anxiety every time she had to fly into Denver? Would she avoid that airport altogether? Maybe she would develop a fear of flying. The point is that even though she had no memory of the incident, it still could have affected her for the rest of her life.

I was fascinated by the theory, because it explained absolutely everything about how I have lived my life.

And then I had the conversation with Agin, and it clicked: is that why manginas are manginas? Have they been betrayed by their mothers, or some other woman they desperately cared about or were dependent upon? Maybe they don't even remember it. Maybe they think their mom is the best woman in the whole world. But they have this reaction to the betrayal.

Ironically, the betrayal in the case of manginas would be caused by feminism. So they're conflicted and desperate to gain that approval and acceptance in any way they can.

I don't know. I haven't worked it all out yet. But I wanted to get it out there for discussion. What do you think?

Possibly some shreds of truth there but I think it's chivalry gone overboard.

Also I've noticed most manginas are not very loyal to one woman because they are ruled by the feminine.

My Dad was a mangina and it showed in the company of most women accept his own wife who he tried to dominate. She was a staunch feminist for years and they bumped heads often. But he always took care of her needs and she was never thankful of anything.

kelly i think your idea of betrayal is a very good and interesting one, i doubt that any other situation could cause as much damage as having your trust violated by someone who was supposed to care for you.

when people who are supposed to be looking after you, treat you badly, you internalise it, and you think that you deserve to be treated like that. You have no reference to the outside world. I think when that happens your entire identity and self-esteem can be completely stolen from you.

something like, 'if this person cares about me, and thats what they do to me, it must mean that i deserve it?'

also im trying to imagine how this could work in many ways, for the purpose of this forum, . Obviously the one that comes straight to my mind, is when a girl is raped by a family member, but thats not the purpose of this forum. Perhaps from a male perspective, maybe it could mean mothers putting their gender in front of their own child, making their own son pay for what they percieve as the patriarchy?

maybe it could mean fathers favouring female members of the family over males, despite the reality of the situation.

i dont know, but i think the men within this forum should ask themselves kelly's question. Did you feel betrayed by a person who was supposed to care for you? what happend, and what did they do?

No. I actually have a great relationship with both my parents.

Nothing. My dad didn't molest me. My mother didn't abuse me. Or vice versa.

I am just sick of preferential and/or glove treatment some people get just because they have a vagina.

I'm sick of seeing authority figures bending over backwars to abet women in whatever is convenient for them at the moment.

I'm sick of having to make way for them and then futilely expecting to at least not being maligned.

I'm sick and tired of their puppy eyes they make everytime it's time to step up, so they avoid responsibility.

I'm sick and tired of women pointing their fingers and hordes of chivalrists being happy to make their every wish come through at all costs - at the expense of OTHER men, so THEY get a feminine pat on the back.

And most of all, I'm sick and tired of seeing my rights, precious rights, which took centuries to be claimed, now being eroded and taken away, like it's no big deal, all in the name of "protecting women". Men must give away protections which are supposed to be granted to everyone, so the women can FEEL protected enough. No chance in hell I'll ever agree to that.

That's why I'm here. This is the betrayal that irritates me. I never expected the state to take care of me, I just hate to see it sticking it's intruding nose where it shouldn't be sticking it.

Kelly, are you referring to your childhood or recent events that had happened in your past?....I knew that if you're hurt emotionally you'd tend to suppress it or, in the case you got no one to turn to as it happened, then, you'd have mostly developed some kinds of anxiety and then, depression as well in your personal life...Sometimes you just too naive or too young to cope with it, what do you think?....Your mentioning of amnesia could be the symptom of depression as well....

It started out being about my childhood, because what happened was so horrific that I had to block it out in order to keep my sanity. But it just seemed to me that that could be a very common defense mechanism to the complete insanity that is our culture. Either you're insane, or everyone is, or you pretend it didn't happen.

I d[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Desktop/My%20Pictures/balroglianifast.gif[/IMG]on't think I've never bought into feminism before!!!
Because my religion, my common sense and my true Y chromosome would never allow it!!!!!
At this point, this is the way I feel about Feminism...
[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/Desktop/My%20Pictures/balroglianifast.gif[/IMG]balroglianifast.gif

Rage, I'm still not getting if it's you or everyone else who is insane?

Several aspects of the thinking here are worrisome. There are the most tenuous connections posited and no supports for them. There is a mixture of anecdote and obscurity cobbled together to support a psychological case and it doesn't hold water IMHO.

(Sorry Kim, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but....)

The first part I could understand but the second bit is most unlikely.

There isn't a 'usual' direction at Denver - or anywhere else's large regional airfield for that matter. (Denver is quite a complex). The runway in use is determined primarily by the wind direction and weather, and the availability of serviceable landing aids such as ILS.

When a 'go around' is initiated, ( a very occasional need) a missed approach pattern is flown to get back to the same runway. The likelihood of landing in the opposite direction is virtually nil. All the other aircraft in the pattern would have their approaches disrupted and there would be hell to pay - and a hell of a lot of money too. Unless the aircraft in question was on fire or had a dire emergency declared, it would have had to fit right back into the approach pattern.

It would cost a small fortune for an aircraft to land on the opposite end of the runway. Just the fines alone would bankrupt a small airline. (Even the aircraft made 'late' at the gate would be fined and the fuel costs recovery would occupy a large team of lawyers for several years).

This lady mentioned (a therapist!!) would have confirmation of her suspicions within days, not from a fellow passenger but from the newspapers and TV as the shit hit the fan.

Repression was touted by the old fraud Freud. It has no mechanism known, psychological or physiological and has never been confirmed by experiment. It is one of those psychobabble thingos that is used to manipulate or justify.

I can understand the idea that hurt may be relegated to a lower priority than fear, but even then we are dealing with apples and oranges. Hurt is from memory (past); fear is present. Repeated occasions of fear, even mild anxiety, is going to overcome memory of a specific betrayal incident. That doesn't imply 'repression' or 'supression'.

Mangina is a term of derogation. It isn't a soundly specified label. Most human beings have a mix of attitudes and values, some quite internally contradictory. Many, many men in the sixties could have been called manginas for their sympathy with the feminist cause. Thet the cause was so blatently false was not realised as well as it is today. Nowadays there is no such excuse.

Most men are quite loving and kind creatures and easily have sympathy - and empathy often- for women. A natural protective inclination. It isn't a 'power' thing. Even in tiny children, in most ordinary cases, the power issue isn't an issue. Safety is. Love is.

Feminazis emphasise the power issue, for their own agenda ends. They have also made spectacular use of the fraudulent term 'repressed memory', causing untold damage.

The whole idea of memory repression has been horribly abused in the name of many things, mainly greed. I do understand this, and you have to understand that I have been vigilant to make sure no memories have been suggested to me. I've lived most of my life with maybe 4 or 5 memories out of my entire childhood. I mean that literally. It's almost as if I were born adult. When I would try to think of my life growing up, I would literally get nothing but a few fuzzy, vague memories, and pure blackness. Only now, in my 40's, am I getting it back.

My own experience tells me that memory repression can and does happen. I realize it's purely anecdotal, but I know it's true. Well, mostly anecdotal. There is that dent in my forehead. And the fact that I was far from being a virgin when I thought I was.

As far as the mangina thing, I really don't know. I just threw the idea out there.

Excellent point about the landing direction. I really know nothing about such things.