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  1. #1
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    Post The Titanic and what men are like


    The Titanic and what men are like
    By Denise Noe


    Atlanta’s Civic Center currently has an exhibition of Titanic memorabilia. April 15 is Titanic Remembrance Day, making this a good period to review to lessons from that catastrophe.

    Late on the night of April 14, 1912, the supposedly unsinkable Titanic hit an iceberg. By next morning, the ship was on its way down.

    It is common knowledge that entrance into the lifeboats was made on the basis of “Women and Children First” but it is a point for reflection. An ancient cliché says, “It’s a man’s world.” Seeing the world as dominated by men is not without logic. Men have historically predominated in areas of formal power and in what can roughly be called “public” arenas.

    However, a deeper look discloses that societies are composed of patriarchal and matriarchal elements with the latter dominating in some important respects. The patriarchal tradition excluded women from professions and demanded wives “obey” their husbands; the matriarchal tradition held men responsible for the support of their wives and debts incurred by them. The patriarchal tradition placed limits on how far women could rise; the matriarchal tradition placed limits on how far they could sink – figuratively in the sense of homelessness and hunger and occasionally literally.

    The “Women and children first” rule on ships puts our matriarchal tradition into sharpest relief. Perhaps it is instructive to review its origins. According to “A ship tradition: women and children first,” at essortment, an online website, the tradition began in 1852 with the sinking of the HMS Birkenhead. The ship was sailing around the coast of southern Africa when she (is it patriarchal or matriarchal that a ship is a “she”?) ran into trouble. There were 638 people onboard, 476 British (presumably male) soldiers, and 20 women and children. On February 26, 1852, the ship ran onto a rock off the justifiably named Danger Point between Cape Hangklip and Cape Aguilhas. According to essortment, “The metal hull was torn open and just over a hundred soldiers drowned as they lay sleeping. The rest of the troops rushed on deck and tried to help the crew to man the pumps and free the lifeboats. Alas, the lifeboats had rarely, if ever been used and the rigging was clogged with paint and they were only able to free three of the lifeboats. The women and children were ushered into the three lifeboats.”

    The commanding officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Seton, ordered the men to stand fast lest they rush the lifeboats, swamping the small crafts and leading to the deaths of the women and children.

    Some men survived because they were picked up by lifeboats or managed to swim to shore. However, most, like Seton himself, died.

    The tradition grouping women with children is arguably “fair” because the physical differences between men and women mean that the former have a greater chance of swimming to safety. However, those chances can be minuscule. The rule means men must die so women can live.

    That was true when the Titanic hit the iceberg.

    According to Titanic Destination Disaster: The Legends and the Reality by John P. Eaton and Charles A. Haas, the wealthy and famous John Jacob Astor, “assist[ed] his five-months pregnant wife into [a] lifeboat, then asked the officer in charge if he might accompany her. After being refused, Astor joined the other gentlemen on deck in assisting ladies into the boat.”

    Eaton and Haas write of the privilege conferred on females: “Generally on the port side only women and children were allowed in boats, while on the starboard side men could board if no women were present.”

    Even when they could have entered a lifeboat, some men on board the doomed vessel felt duty bound to first see that women were safe. Eaton and Haas note that a first officer permitted men to enter one of the lifeboats but that “there were several gentlemen who, after assisting ladies into the boat, stood away and went elsewhere, to be lost.”

    After the sinking of the Titanic, some women felt it imperative to honor the sacrifices made by the men on that tragic ship. The grateful women organized to raise money for the building of a monument to those men. Designed by Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, a statue was sculpted depicting a man with his head held high and outstretched arms in a kind of Christ-like pose. According to “Titanic Memorials,” the face of the figure resembles that of Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney’s “brother, who coincidentally died on the Lusitania.”

    On May 26, 1931, Helen Taft, wife of former President William H. Taft, unveiled the statue. President Herbert Hoover and several Cabinet members attended the ceremony. Erected in Washington D.C. in Rock Creek Park, it was moved in 1966 to make way for the creation of the John F. Kennedy School for the Performing Arts. It now stands near Fort McNair.

    Below the figure is this inscription: “To The Brave Men Who Perished In The Wreck of the Titanic, April 15, 1912. They Gave Their Lives That Women and Children Might Be Saved. Erected By The Women Of America.”

    All too often, men as a sex are judged by the worst actions of some: the rapist, the batterer, or the child molester. While individual men may be credited for the good they do, the positives are, unlike the negatives, rarely used to show “what they’re like” as a gender. However, the truth is that men have criminalized and punished the worst that some men do. They have sometimes mandated the best. Warren Farrell in his groundbreaking book, “The Myth of Male Power” pertinently asks, “If men make the rules, what does it say about men that they make rules demanding that they put the lives of women before their own?”

    The Titanic Women’s Memorial stands as a tribute to the extraordinary self-sacrifice of which men are capable.

    That sculpture may be seen at
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootbearwdc/35733167/in/set-72057594085185449, at
    http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic_memorial-washington_women.shtml, and at
    http://www.pottsoft.com/home/titanic/womens_memorial.html.

  2. #2
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Good piece, Denise - thank you!
    S E R V I C E W I T H A S M I L E

  3. #3

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Note that that Memorial of men's life-saving actions for women on the Titanic was erected in 1931. Would it be erected now, in this age of the Feminist State and women that have man-hating inscribed into their psyches? No. Is it a reflection on the attitude and behaviour of women now? No. Therefore, is it all that useful for us to cite as proof of women's good nature? No.

    Sorry, Denise. This does not reverse 40 years of State-enforced misandry as proscribed by women voters, legislators and writers.

  4. #4
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    I think that's her point, MRN.
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  5. #5
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Beautifully balanced Denise. It is always good to see your best pieces and insights.

    One point usually missing from the men-women debate, one that needs to be underscored from time to time, is that men love women. The giving of a life to enable another's to be saved is the ultimate expression of that love. It is more than simple 'chivalry'.

    I wait, not holding my breath, for the day when an empowered women makes it her practice to say "men and children, first".

  6. #6
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    T'is a good job you're not holding your breath then...
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  7. #7

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Quote Quote from Percy View Post
    Beautifully balanced Denise. It is always good to see your best pieces and insights.

    One point usually missing from the men-women debate, one that needs to be underscored from time to time, is that men love women. The giving of a life to enable another's to be saved is the ultimate expression of that love. It is more than simple 'chivalry'.

    I wait, not holding my breath, for the day when an empowered women makes it her practice to say "men and children, first".

    1. Denise, women have more fat deposits making them more resistant to hyperthermia. It makes no sense to group women with children based on that physical difference because you can arguably group men with children based on physical aspects. By the same logic you could group people into swimmers and nonswimmers and decide who survives based on that.


    2. It will never happen, ever.

    Its hard to find a few stories of women dying for men. Women aren't protective of men in that way. they put their lives , welfare and happiness first.



    And you are right. Its mens love that compels them to save women. Nothing to do with chivalry. Giving up your lives is not something that just shows manners. Most men can't stand seeing their women crying or in pain. Most women have no problem with men crying or men in pain. Often she's the reason he's crying or in pain.

  8. #8
    bababob Guest

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Bravo, Denise!
    And again ... Thanks!

  9. #9

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Quote Quote from bababob View Post
    Bravo, Denise!
    And again ... Thanks!


    What's you opinion on this?

  10. #10
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Quote Quote from musicman.2 View Post
    What's you opinion on this?
    I think she wasn't there.
    Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

  11. #11

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Quote Quote from Denise Noe View Post
    The Titanic and what men are like
    By Denise Noe




    The tradition grouping women with children is arguably “fair” because the physical differences between men and women mean that the former have a greater chance of swimming to safety. However, those chances can be minuscule. The rule means men must die so women can live.

    That was true when the Titanic hit the iceberg.

    This is the weakest argument I have ever seen. Women have more fat. Men should go first due to smaller resistance to cold temperatures.





    “The Myth of Male Power” pertinently asks, “If men make the rules, what does it say about men that they make rules demanding that they put the lives of women before their own?”


    That men love women more than women love men and that women are selfish as hell if they don't mind their husbands dying for them. Wasn't there a quote saying no matter how much a woman loves a man she will get extreme amount of pleasure from him committing suicide for her?

    The Titanic Women’s Memorial stands as a tribute to the extraordinary self-sacrifice of which men are capable.

    A self sacrifice women are not capable of

    .

  12. #12
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like



    You're a hard case, MM.
    Last edited by julie; 26th-March-2009 at 08:17 PM. Reason: spelling
    Ignorance is the Oppressor, Vigilance the Liberator.

  13. #13

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Quote Quote from julie View Post


    You're a hard case, MM.

    Um what?

  14. #14
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    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Thank you, Denise, for an interesting article that highlights that we have moved from an unequal-but-perhaps-fair society to one where women now hold all the advantages that men used to have, while men still have the disadvantages they used to have.

    Ken Ringle, Washington Post:
    There were only 16 lifeboats. Three hundred sixteen women were saved, with 57 children. More than 1,300 men -- passengers and crew -- went down with the ship after a relatively orderly evacuation of "women and children first."
    Wkipedia on the memorial
    All who gave their lives nobly to save women and children
    Misandry Review
    Titanic: Its lessons about gender still resonate
    ____________________________________________
    I've had "equality" hammered at me all my life. It's about time I had some of it.
    I like females - I admire femininity - I despise feminism

  15. #15

    Re: The Titanic and what men are like

    Bravo, Denise. And I love your summation, Douglas, but I'm not sure women have yet successfully claimed all the perks men once had.


 

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