I would be very happy to offer International moral support. I take it the effort you speak of in in the UK.

Any effort has to be built upon sound aims, many of which will be unpopular and attract serious opposition. So the arguements will have to be very soundly constructed and given over and over and over again, calmly and with control.

The central plank has to be the complete change to divorce laws. No unilateral divorce. That word - unilateral - has to replace 'no-fault' in the public mind. 'No-Fault' has to be shown, very clearly, as weasel words; a 'long con'; mendacity; Marxist; a LIE.

"Men's rights" will not cut it.

"Family" will.

That means women fully involved right from the start.

Now, that will be an anathema to most MRAs but frankly the bullet has to be bitten.

Knock over the evil divorce laws and the capstone, the block that keeps the arch up, the foundation, whatever you conceive as being the main support for Femonazism, will be removed and the whole femonazi edifice will tumble.

Gee, I bet that makes me popular!

Do I care?

Not sure it makes you unpopular as current divorce laws have often been the cornerstone of the mens movement. What we have right now is all about extorting from and alienating men - something a party should surely be founded to oppose.

Only trouble is it's already been addressed even though the battle still goes on. What can we do that's different?

Dear MenRep,
You said:

What can we do that's different?

Pook made the case a ways back that we need to have a special interest group before we start putting any candidates forward. I won't go into details, but he won me to his argument with logic.

What should be the pragmatic focus of the special interest group?

Well another man has done this at the http://www.leagueofmenvoters.org/

By gathering men into a pragmatic block first you avoid any platform problems. At the same time other parties will answer your letters or emails first, followed by meeting you in private, to meeting you in public to finally possibly changing policy. If they don't appeal to your agenda you then bring online your own political party (threating to split the vote in key ridings). This is grassroots up, for it can't be done top down.

Now you sound like a pragmatic type so if you could contact The League of Men Voters you could open a UK/EU branch, with Percy game for ANZAC and I have just the man in Canada for you. I know some Canadians that are at present trying to get the Canadian Libertarian party to put back the men friendly platform that they had in place until recently. Yet they need members to give them backing to push it back in.

I know a few HN men that are also interested in a political party in the UK, and I'm willing to help seriously in getting this kind of grassroots effort up to working in each country, and can give publicity/news via the Honor Network. I haven't contacted The League of Men Voters (though I'm contacting others all the time) for the Honor Network is just to hot for them and other pragmatic centered male agendas, and a moderate looking pragmatic fellow like you would be better to go knocking on their door (though you don't seem to be above talking to radicals, like those here on AM).

Then with different men in each country you could pull techniques from one another, like Tony Blair learned from the Clintons over 5 years before being elected). This kind of long term, grassroots, wise Pook idea would be worth the time.

Please note that the idea isn't mine, the name/title of the group isn't mine, the targeted structure isn't mine, the party that would benefit isn't mine (it yours) and I wouldn't be given any position or profit in the venture, but would be only be working at the project. I have no dog in this race, except of course the cause moving forward.

Look forward to your and Percy's reply to this idea.

Oh good God.

A men's political party is just starting up? How much there is to learn. But better now than ever. It has to be.

Men Rep, you sound like a good man. (if I said great, you probably wouldn't buy it)

These are the guys 10 years down the track from you. These guys are absolutely 100% bonofied great men.

http://republicans.org.nz/

I gave a little push to them to care for you. They already know you are coming.

Maybe I have this wrong, Men Rep. Maybe you have been at this for years yourself. I don't want to come across as nasty.

Maybe you could just contact the group on my last comment to swap ideas.

They now all about the feminist even to the time they poo, so to speak.

Two very interesting links. I had no idea that a league for men voters even existed but I will certainly pursue this contact you gave me from Canada if there is an interest in forming a political party here in the United Kingdom.

Although I cannot see any similarities in what I'm doing to libertarians or NZ republicans - I have been running the Men's Representative Party here for a while and was invited to this forum a while back owing to it. This is a registered political party and been going a while but not as successful as I had hoped - which is why I planned to update things.

Some have dismissed it for being too moderate but I cannot see extremeties winning seats. Although I am open to policy change/input~

Actually the men I'm talking about are Englishmen in England, and the other point dealt with men's rights actitvists in the Canada trying to get the Libertarian party to reintroduce the older party platform.

If you are talking of a political party with only statist types then you are likely to put off half the men's movement (at least), so I'm not sure what your point was there, and that is why a simple voting gathering organization is less likely to put off statist or Whig liberals.

I will call on these Englishmen to see if they will join you the moment you follow up on the US men's voters League.

I will come on board myself the moment I'm am assured that you will do what's best for men (and not center on your party as an end in itself). This sounds very vague, but it is not meant to be. Historically organizations become self-perpetuating as an end goal. I can commit to garthering men to work and gather voters if we go to other parties and say, "we can support you in ridings or compete with you in ridings?", (thus splitting the vote) unless you can offer men something in public policy towards justice (private promises are no good). Then when they likely say "no" we can hit them with candidates from your party in the UK ( and others parties in other nations lead by MRAs) in key ridings first to hurt them (and later to compete with them head-to-head). This way we get their attention first and don't need to get every man on board before giving them help in laws (or the lack of them)!

That's all I want and then I can be a soldier for you. I need your word on this method, and the small action of contacting the league and setting up a league of Englishmen voters (with a close association with your party of course) then I'm a go. I need a clear deal, and vague answers will leave me wanting.

What are your thoughts or conditions?

I found a web site for League of Men Voters

http://www.leagueofmenvoters.org/


It focuses on the US, not the UK. The problems would be a lot different.

Blessings

Bob

http://www.leagueofmenvoters.org/

Interesting...

This new web site represents just the first mile of a long and demanding journey ahead that will end when men and women once again are voting at more comparable rates and numbers.


Most Americans are aware that overall voter turnout in the U.S. has been very low over the past couple of decades. But what you might be surprised to learn is that males are by far the major reason for that lower turnout.

Also:

For every 100 males who vote in national elections…115 females vote!

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 59,284,000 women compared to 51,542,000 men, reported voting in the 2000 presidential election.

That’s almost 8 million fewer male votes!

Will probably be even lower again for 2008 as men will likely be faced with a depressing choice between Clinton or McCain. The reason (I think) that so much of the male electorate as disappeared is because conservative politics has disappeared. Men overwhemimgly vote for economically and socially conservative parties, while the reverse is true for women; they vote liberal. All of the "big two" parties in Western democracies fully embrace liberalism. Are we seeing a pattern?

Quote from Male-Rights-Network

Also:
Will probably be even lower again for 2008 as men will likely be faced with a depressing choice between Clinton or McCain. The reason (I think) that so much of the male electorate as disappeared is because conservative politics has disappeared. Men overwhemimgly vote for economically and socially conservative parties, while the reverse is true for women; they vote liberal. All of the "big two" parties in Western democracies fully embrace liberalism. Are we seeing a pattern?

The lying scum running for office in the US have gotten so bad that less than half the voters will vote for any of the lying scum. This coming fall it may be down to 40%. None of the candidates are acceptable and most Americans are completely offended by the whole criminal mess.

Blessings

Bob

If the party happens I'll be a member and I will help in any way I can. Absolutely.

Quote from Timocrat

Actually the men I'm talking about are Englishmen in England, and the other point dealt with men's rights actitvists in the Canada trying to get the Libertarian party to reintroduce the older party platform.

If you are talking of a political party with only statist types then you are likely to put off half the men's movement (at least), so I'm not sure what your point was there, and that is why a simple voting gathering organization is less likely to put off statist or Whig liberals.

I will call on these Englishmen to see if they will join you the moment you follow up on the US men's voters League.

I will come on board myself the moment I'm am assured that you will do what's best for men (and not center on your party as an end in itself). This sounds very vague, but it is not meant to be. Historically organizations become self-perpetuating as an end goal. I can commit to garthering men to work and gather voters if we go to other parties and say, "we can support you in ridings or compete with you in ridings?", (thus splitting the vote) unless you can offer men something in public policy towards justice (private promises are no good). Then when they likely say "no" we can hit them with candidates from your party in the UK ( and others parties in other nations lead by MRAs) in key ridings first to hurt them (and later to compete with them head-to-head). This way we get their attention first and don't need to get every man on board before giving them help in laws (or the lack of them)!

That's all I want and then I can be a soldier for you. I need your word on this method, and the small action of contacting the league and setting up a league of Englishmen voters (with a close association with your party of course) then I'm a go. I need a clear deal, and vague answers will leave me wanting.

What are your thoughts or conditions?

Yes, I will certainly follow up on the League of Men Voters and can form a gathering of active British males, if the option to do so is available on what seems a traditionally American site. As I already have a party registered here I see no reason why the party shouldn't be the hub of this new British faction.

I also plan to contact the NZ republican party site which Julie has kindly suggested to me, as well as put a word in I understand.

No policy is yet set in stone so we could surely have time to develop this. The only problem I see, and I could be wrong here is that MRAs tend to lean towards fundamentalist conservative values - even the 'religious right' at times. What happens when we have a collection formed with liberals aboard, pro-abortionists or statists? It is common for many of us to have a conflicting opinions where MRA's will fight to the death over their views.

Yes, I will certainly follow up on the League of Men Voters and can form a gathering of active British males, if the option to do so is available on what seems a traditionally American site.-Men Rep

Actually have your own League site under the same name would be best. Then you can link with the US and other national head's sites.

As I already have a party registered here I see no reason why the party shouldn't be the hub of this new British faction.-MenRep

Well again have another site that has large links to your party site. I can get one of the men in England, or Knight-Errant to help with it, or as a last resort we can provide many pages for such a site easily on HN for free. It's up to you.

I also plan to contact the NZ republican party site which Julie has kindly suggested to me, as well as put a word in I understand.-MenRep

Sounds good!

No policy is yet set in stone so we could surely have time to develop this. The only problem I see, and I could be wrong here is that MRAs tend to lean towards fundamentalist conservative values - even the 'religious right' at times. What happens when we have a collection formed with liberals aboard, pro-abortionists or statists? It is common for many of us to have a conflicting opinions where MRA's will fight to the death over their views.-MenRep

Well each League will be centered on there own population, and not need to worry about appealing to other countries voters. This new League would make the effort to state that it is open all political wings and only allow recruitment of its members at any meeting if they have a rep from all sides of the spectrum pitching their policies with equal time. Yet this is unlikely in the short term so you would remain aloof from promoting any party directly.

It would have links to your party though, and any other male centered parties in the world on site and thus show the best option available in an ad format. Before an election, as I mentioned to you already, the League would go to each other party in your nation and ask what policies they have that are male friendly and father friendly, and whether they are willing to state publicly in some election promise to that effect. Then before any election the League site would state each parties offer (or lack of an offer) with the best at the top and the worst one at the bottom. Your party would likely offer the best deal and get prime promotion upsetting the men who support parities less on the other wings.

We had our think tank to discuss this in 2006, and have tried to find the ground between the wings. If you are willing you can take part in the next step in 2009, so we can work towards the ground of bringing all the leagues and parties into more common ground (privately and thus hiding the nasty debates from the public), you are welcome.

What are your views on this?