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Despite the beliefs of some, you can be a progressive and not a feminist.

I know this because I am one. It gets me shit from every direction, but I stand by being both a progressive and an MRA.

Modern progressivism has a few main concepts. Those being the desire to change and modify institutions as needed, strong and smart business regulations, a concern for the collective good, the expansion of education, and the challenging of tradition. Obviously economic and social progressivism tends to be (fairly) separate. So it is clear you can be economically progressive, but not socially progressive. I am talking about social movements and am going to focus on social progressivism.

Feminism has been around for about 90 years and it has been incredibly powerful for at least 40. If you really wanted to, you could perhaps argue that that because of its inability to change, institutionalized feminism is anything but progressive. But I am not going to go that far. However, because of its inflexibility, and the fact progressivism outdates feminism I can say with ease that the two do not go hand in hand.

There is no “purity test” for progressivism. Progressivism doesn’t have a minimum requirement. You can be progressive on some issues and a bit more conservative on others.

But the general rule of thumb for progressive gender politics is that traditional gender roles have to go, and last time I checked that was a cornerstone of the MRM. In a sense, men’s rights can play a big roll in socially progressive movements. New institutions, laws, and making a better justice system are all core aspects of men’s rights, as well as progressivism.

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my almost successful facebook page that you all should have liked already

Quote from Richard

Bearing in mind the fact we have a few bi’s and gender queers (for a lack of a better word) on this fourm, this is living testimony to the fact that gays and lesbians, while preaching love and toleranace and “rights” in fact are as bigoted and prejduicd as anyone else. They reject gender queers to the extent that many have sought a refuge on this forum, and in fact more in common with hetros than gays. In the light of this do we even need to consider any form of tactical alliance with them?

Gays and lesbians, it seems, have a lot in common with communism and feminism. Communism offered the promise of equality, but the reality turned out horribly different. Similarly feminists said their liberation would result in mens liberation as well. In both cases, while terrible things were being done, yet many continued to believe such ideologies. Indeed it is interesting to note that while reports were flooding out of Russia that Stalin was starving millions to death, western intellectuals dismissed such reports are capitalist propaganda. Today, feminists use exactly the same tactics. It also seems, from the reports I am reading on this fourm, that gays, etc hide behind terms and ideas like equal rights, but for them, the use of such concepts are purely instrumental.

We were screwed over by the feminist promise – but we wont be screwed over by any other one – gay or otherwise.

Feckless, in the light of not just my opnion, but everyone on this forum, straight, gender queer or otherwise, I think its time you put away your idealism and look at the real politik

Its time, we, the majority reasserted our rights, our powers.

Quote from Richard

Let me sum up. You want me to give gays the "right" (not priviledge) to adopt children who have been taken away from my fellow (hetro) men, by a legal system no one trusts or believes, and which is sanctified by psychologists who are baised?

Feck, I think you need to re-examine where your beliefs are leading us.

This is why I say, fathers must have real rights and then – if any kids are left over – we can talk about adoption.

"Never before in history have slaves been so well fed, thoroughly medicated, lavishly entertained. But we are slaves nonetheless."<CITE>-- Edward Abbey</CITE>


First, on many of the issues over which mainstream libertarians are divided, I end up on what would generally be perceived as the “left” side of the issue: very minarchist, anti-militarist, anti-intellectual-property, anti-punishment (so a fortiori anti-death-penalty), anti-big-business, pro-secularism, pro-gay-rights, etc. I am however, anti-abortion(in most cases) and anti-immigration(as in illegal) which is often seen as a rightist position.


If the struggle really is defined as "liberty vs. equality," then I will always favor liberty and fall to the Right for that. But debating that is akin to debating "slavery vs. hierarchy."

Liberty and equality are on the same side - the left side. They are both against legally-enforced and -protected hierarchy. Liberty vs. coercion, equality vs. hierarchy - either way it's phrased, it's the same battle. Equal liberty is the only real form of liberty, and the only desirable form of equality.

So here are other ways to state my left-libertarian principles:

1. I reject the coercion and hierarchy of the State's centralized bureaucratic structure, including the military;
2. I reject monopolies of land, natural resources, and "intellectual property," created and preserved by the State, and the loss of opportunity and depression of wages that this form of inequality brings;
3. I reject any State-sanctioned disinctions between individuals for the purposes of either forced segregation or forced assocation based on race, ethnicity, religion, or gender;
4. I reject the use of State coercion to enforce or "protect" certain values or a "way of life" which wouldn't otherwise survive in the normal course of peaceful human relations.

The above points embrace the value that individuals have an equal right to be free. By rejecting coercion and its conceptual twin, hierarchy, I reject the Right and embrace the Left. Liberty and equality may be distinct concepts, but practically speaking they are inseparable.



I am “Left” because I agree with Karl Hess’s designations of Left and Right, which expanded onMurray Rothbard’s definitions from the 1960s. I am “Left” because I believe that historically the “Left” first referred to our classical liberal forebears, that it has most often meant “anti-establishment” and “opposition.” I am “Left” because my political ancestors included H.L. Mencken, Albert Jay Nock, John T. Flynn, Randolph Bourne, and George Orwell, all Leftists. I am “Left” because more contemporary Leftists have included the likes of Paul Goodman, Edward Abbey, Wendell Berry, and Alexander Cockburn. And finally, I am “Left” because George W. Bush, William F. Buckley, Jr., Charles Krauthammer, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Novak, and Sean Hannity are Rightists.

http://musingsofaprohuman.blogspot.c...bertarian.html

Are you hanging by a thread,
or swinging from a rope?
Don't think we don't see your scars
Are you afraid of who you are?
Are you afraid of who you are?! --Atreyu, Gallows

A recent article at the Spearhead dealt with nature versus nurture and how gender roles developed. I'm... impressed that the article put what I have been struggling to express for a while into words. Though I personally disagree with some of the articles conclusions I feel compelled to actually write about choice as a concept.

I will agree that putting everything to genetics is a bad idea, it's not true for one, and for another it would make morality impossible. I can accept that I am genetically predisposed towards certain behaviors, but I also accept that I have the ability to fight my urges. Genetics influence a lot of things, but they don't influence culture or choices, but they can influence the character of our choices and culture.

Ethical choice demands that we do the honorable and correct thing, and avoiding terrible choices.

"Morality was not brought down from Mount Sinai carved on tablets- moral is a function of the human soul, as old as mankind itself." -Carl Jung

Humans naturally do know how to behave, how to care for others and protect others. They know how to love, make bonds, nurture, and live. If you ask people today about the natural goodness of humanity, most of them will laugh at you and point to this atrocity or that war, as proof that anyone who believes in our "natural goodness" is just being naive. But this, is a function of the dominant myth that people have been taught to believe. Many will ignore all of the natural wonders and goodness that we are capable of, in favor of the horror that we are capable of, and use that one-sided perspective as their guideline for defining what is "human". That situation is, to me, intolerable.

I have faith in humanity. We are free of these shackles, and our humanity is allowed to be as it was intended to be. Our benevolence, love, caring, and concerns are allowed to emerge naturally. We are allowed to be spiritual, mental, and moral adults, not children scolded and commanded to love or "do good". We do not believe that humans come forth from the womb flawed or morally stupid. As Jung said "Morality was not brought down from Mount Sinai carved on tablets- moral is a function of the human soul, as old as mankind itself."

Obama has been able to justify, using scriptures, a morality that his audience is able to understand. What a terrible pity that he has to refer to a book to get the crowd to applaud. What a terrible, terrible pity.

Why are Obama's choice of words ultimately futile? Because his appeal to "human decency" was framed in the center of an enormous, paradoxical flaw: it was framed as though we need reasons to be decent. If people truly believe such a thing, they can never be truly decent- they can only put on a good act. Deep, authentic decency has to emerge previous to any rule or command, and especially previous to any rule or command that carries with it a torturous penalty for breaking it. Are we children? Are we dogs to be threatened into obedience, or horses to be broken?

I'm not a child, a dog, or a horse; and I don't need a reason to inspire, encourage, or justify my love, or my decency.

I am not fundamentally flawed morally due to my genes, and I am not incapable of making moral choices. I love, I provide therapeutic healing to my clients, I give to charity and I protect my hubby. I will be damned if I'm going to let my genetics influence my moral choices.

We are not strung up on the Gallows of genetics, we are perfectly capable making good choices .

Thank you for your time. In frith.

http://musingsofaprohuman.blogspot.c...5/gallows.html

father(fa·ther)
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1246392?rskey=M9Kv4O&result=1#m_en_us124639 2
Pronunciation:/ˈfäTHər, /
noun
1 a man in relation to his natural child or children.
a male animal in relation to its offspring.
(usually fathers) literary an ancestor.
(also founding father) an important figure in the origin and early history of something:
Dorsey should be remembered as the father of gospel music
a man who gives care and protection to someone or something: the prince is widely regarded as the father of the nation
the oldest or most respected member of a society or other body.
(the Father)(in Christian belief) the first person of the Trinity; God.
(Father)literary used in proper names, especially when personifying time or a river, to suggest an old and venerable character: Father Thames
2 (also Father)(often as a title or form of address) a priest: pray for me, Father
3 (the Fathers or the Church Fathers)early Christian theologians (in particular of the first five centuries) whose writings are regarded as especially authoritative.
verb
[with object]
be the father of: he fathered three children
(usually as noun fathering) treat with the protective care usually associated with a father: the two males share the fathering of the cubs
be the source or originator of: a culture which has fathered half the popular music in the world
(father someone on) make a woman pregnant: he fathered a child on a one-night stand
assign the paternity of a child or responsibility for a book, idea, or action to: a collection of Irish stories was fathered on him
archaic appear as or admit that one is the father or originator of: a singular letter from a lady, requesting I would father a novel of hers
Phrases
like father, like son
proverb a son's character or behavior can be expected to resemble that of his father.
Derivatives
fatherhood
Pronunciation:/-ˌho͝od/
noun
fatherless
adjective
fatherlessness
noun
fatherlike
Pronunciation:/-ˌlīk/
adjective & adverb
Origin:
Old English fǣder, from an Indo-European root shared by Latin pater and Greek patēr
sire(sire)
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1290973#m_en_us1290973
Pronunciation:/sīr, /
noun
1 the male parent of an animal, especially a stallion or bull kept for breeding.
2 archaic a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king.
a father or other male forebear.
verb
[with object]
be the male parent of (an animal).
literary (of a person) be the father of.
Origin:
Middle English (SIRE)SENSE 2 OF THE NOUN): from Old French, from an alteration of Latin senior (see SENIOR). SIRE (SENSE 1 OF THE NOUN) dates from the early 16th century.
senior(sen·ior)
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1289054?rskey=FNcpfy&result=2#m_en_us128905 4.005
Pronunciation:/ˈsēnyər, /
adjective
1 of a more advanced age: he is 20 years senior to Leonard
of or for students in the final year of college or high school.
relating to or denoting competitors of above a certain age or of the highest status in a particular sport.
British of, for, or denoting schoolchildren above a certain age, typically eleven.
(often Senior)[postpositive] (in names) denoting the elder of two who have the same name in a family, especially a father as distinct from his son: Henry James senior
2 holding a high and authoritative position: he is a senior Finance Ministry official
[predic.] (senior to) holding a higher position than: the people senior to me in my department
noun
a person who is a specified number of years older than someone else: she was only two years his senior
an elderly person, especially one who is retired and living on a pension.
a student in the final year of college or high school.
British a student in a school for older children, especially those eleven and over.
a competitor of above a certain age or of the highest status in a particular sport: at fourteen you move up to the seniors
Origin:
Late Middle English: from Latin, literally ‘older, older man’, comparative of senex, sen – ‘old, man, old’
dad(dad)
definition of dad from Oxford Dictionaries Online
Pronunciation:/dad, /
noun
informal
one's father: his dad was with him what are you making, Dad?
Origin:
Mid 16th century: perhaps imitative of a young child’s first syllables da, da
paternity(pa·ter·ni·ty)
definition of paternity from Oxford Dictionaries Online
Pronunciation:/pəˈternitē, /
noun
1 (especially in legal contexts) the state of being someone's father:he refused ...

So recently, I was interacting with a buddy on twitter and was accosted by a couple of prochoice femtards who exhibited all of the normal (lack of) debate skills shown by the left generally, and by feminists especially, and who gladly donned the mantle of fascist barbarians if that was what was necessary to change the spelling to womyn. The actual tweets, with the actual twitter screen names, followed by my highly enlightening comments, follow....

Note: I have adopted "twitter" style to identify the speaker - the speaker, the one tweeting, is identified by the @ symbol. I.e., when you see @objectifychicks, I am the speaker. Also note that I have, for ease of reading, occasionally converted twitter abbreviations to their English signifier (i.e, "2" to "to," "shd" to "should," etc.), and have added punctuation and capitalization throughout for ease of reading.

_____________________

@Auragasmic I never see pro-lifers tweeting about capital punishment or war. #duh #prochoice

You will notice that nothing that a femtard ever says shows any insight or evidence of an ability to think independently. This is actually true of ALL of the left, but it is particularly evident in feminists. If they haven't heard someone else say it, and if it is not a political slogan which can essentially fit on a t-shirt or bumper sticker, they are incapable of expressing it. So tell ya what, let's trot out the old "pro-lifers don't care about capital punishment" argument, shall we? Nobody's ever brought that one up before!!! Hint to all femtards: the reason why some people who are pro-life support capital punishment and war, but do NOT support abortion, has everything to do with the twin issues of helplessness and innocence. I do not expect you to be able to morally reflect on these two concepts, so get someone who is more morally advanced than you are to explain it to you - like the nearest second grader.

@objectifychicks I never see #femtards tweeting about false allegations of domestic violence or rape. #prochoice #duh #fail.

@objectifychicks I never see #femtards tweeting about a CHILD'S right to choose-to be born. #prochoice #duh #fail

@objectifychicks I never see #femtards tweeting about why, if they are as capable as a man, they have to have standards lowered to do what he is already doing.

@objectifychicks I never see #femtards tweeting anything other than political slogans. Wonder if they are capable of thinking? #stopwondering

Notice that I have exposed the tender underbelly of feminism with this series of tweets. Though femtards maintain that if a woman's feelings are not taken into account, she is being abused, they do not see false allegations of domestic violence and rape - which put innocent men in jail for years and separate them from their kids and assets - as anything to particularly worry about. Some exalted sense of "justice" femtards have. And while femtards warble on and on about a woman's choice to either kill her unborn or let it live, they never seem to care about the "choice" of the father of the unborn or of the child itself. And while femtards warble on about how they are equal to men and are capable of doing everything that men can do, they immediately begin to lobby for new legislation and affirmative action lowering standards so that women can do what men are already doing under existing standards. Notice that my femtard prey will only opt to attempt to deal with what she considers to be the low-hanging fruit, and notice how it traps her....

@Auragasmic uh... that would insinuate that it possessed the ability to choose. #lolduh #logicfail #prochoice

Note the deep and abiding ignorance of the femtard. First, she does not understand the very words that she is using. A statement which plainly states something doesn't "insinuate" anything. But a femtard believes that using any word with more than two syllables justifies them spending two years earning that M.A. in Women's Studies. Secondly, note the utter daftness of the self-absorbed retard that is the feminist - she believes that the "choice" of the powerful trumps the rights of the weak. Keep this in mind, because our femtards will wholly adopt that philosophy in just a bit....

@objectifychicks I never see #femtards tweeting for retarded kids to be slaughtered because they are incapable of choice. #prochoice #logicfail

Now, to a femtard, all killing is equal. And notice that our femtard's comparison of abortion to capital punishment and war (see above) is a tacit admission - or INSINUATION - that abortion ...

Finals are this week. I only plan on making 1 blog post this week. However, I plan to show some other content on my FB page. One thing I plan on doing also is creating an "Intro to Men's Rights" window people can click on and see a lot of basic stats and writings of mine that are more introductory than anything else. Your assignment: Go through my blog and pick the pieces you want people to read first!

riseofthezetamale.blogspot.com

Facebook page is becoming a success?

1. Re: No poll from me

2. Please delete my blog
3. Truly,
4. Bob
Bob, I know you are offended by Lady Caff and her support of deviance, but she has a gun and is pointing it in the same direction as we are - against feminism and misandry.

I do not support deviance or homosexual behaviours either but I am quite able to recognise an ally when I see one and when I observe them shooting at the enemy.

Please do argue with deviance. Do argue against homosexual behaviours. But do not make the error of confusing the sinner with the sin.

Sir Percy,
You will see that Brother Marx is copied in, two birds with one writing.
If you can not take the time to read this completely, that is your choice, feminism and misandry is a rather complex thing.
I understand differentiating between the sinner and the sin, and your words are well put. Someone else has written that I think not in haste, which is another apt thought for me to consider.
Catherine the person does not offend me truth to tell, she most certainly if truly she is sexually deviant, is not the first I have met. I have friends who are homosexual, we have even collaborated, a couple are dear friends to me. I know some of the LGBT advocates. I am simply to old to be naive to the ways of the world. I doubt her credulity, that, about me, is certainly true and I highly suspect an agenda that is contrary to antimisandry, men, and Fathers.
I know of the schism between Mens Rights and Fathers Rights, I can telephone or write or email the senior elder of both camps: most amusing is when one or the other writes to me to tell me what the other said, no longer a boy I am none the less the junior in the middle, but both sides concede this point or that, agree to disagree, and yet know there is common ground.
In comes however a third faction, which I believe is properly called sexual deviance: gay men seeking legitimacy by linking their cause to men and Fathers and boys.
That linkage is a misstep for all sides.
Brother Marx as the leader of this little band at AM is specifically aware I just got out of litigation. I sent to Brother Marx both the Court Record and my Pysch Eval. I have nothing to hide but I should be accountable to many. What one does can easily paint the rest.
I went to Court seeking more time with my son which after a year was granted (in January 2011) at the beginning of May 2011 I started petition again to expand that time. Not for myself, I feel I am fighting for my son’s life, he needs the best opportunities to aid his development as a human being. Sir Percy I am a big fan of positive reinforcement: I need only smile at the simplest thing my son does and he is happy.
As we all know the Courtroom is an interesting place and all manner of testimony and evidence is brought forth, being linked to a site that advocates sexual deviance would not be helpful to my previous petition or the one I am starting.
It is not just about me, There is a Father, currently incarcerated in Indiana, USA, a nuclear physicist of research grade, he has paid all that he had between Child Support and Petitions to the Court simply to see his daughters, whom at this point he has not seen for six years, the man has not any mental condition or problems with behavior, a gentler, brilliant man would be very hard to find, it is simply the prejudice of the Court that he faces, he has been on a hunger strike for months. I know that man personally, we have eaten together, drove to activist events together, shared conversations, he was in my city for about a year until he thought moving to Indiana might help.
There is another man in my town (he lives in his own place), who has not seen his daughter for five years now, we have a handle on the improper court machinations that continue to plaque him, he has and his Father and mother as well, depleted what once was a nice bit of savings seeking simple common sense justice.
From the east coast of America to the west coast and points in between I hear of this probably every day.
It is not just about America, F4J began in the UK, I hear from Brothers there, AUS, NZ and CA. There is a Brother in Canada right now, who wrote a letter that sounded like a farewell to his children where the bond seems damaged beyond repair.
All men are not Fathers, all Fathers are men, all men have Fathers.
Drunkenness, Lack of Faith, Sexual Deviance, use of illicit drugs, there are seven critical factors used to delineate the best interests of children.
AM may be a playground for adults, most certainly there are parents who conduct their lives as if they have no responsibilities to their children.
The Boyz Crisis is about males not yet in their majority: children
Marx knows Elam as do I, we both know MND is on its last legs, and we both know Elam mandated open embrace of the homosexual community: ...

KING HENRY THE SIXTH PART III V. II. 189-III.25

-William Shakespeare (ca 1623)

(from the text prepared by Arthur Henry Bullen – 1904)

Scene III.

Court of TITUS’ (ANDRONICUS) house: tables set out.

Enter LUCIUS, MARCUS, and GOTHS, with AARON prisoner.

LUCIUS

UNCLE Marcus, since it is my father’s mind
That I repair to Rome, I am content.

FIRST GOTH

And ours with thine, befall what fortune will.

LUCIUS

Good uncle, take you in this barbarous Moor,
This ravenous tiger, this accursed devil;
Let tim receive no sustenance, fetter him,
Till he be so brought unto the empress’ face,
For testimony of her foul proceedings;
And see the ambush of our friends be strong;
I fear the emperor means no good to us.

AARON

Some devil whisper curses in my ear,
And prompt me that my tongue may utter forth
The venomous malice of my swelling heart!

Lucius

Away, inhuman dog! unhallow’d slave!—
Sirs, help our uncle to convey him in.

[Exuent some GOTHS with Aaron. Flourishes within.

The trumpets show the emperor is at hand

Enter SATURNINUS and TAMORA, with AEMILIUS, TRIBUNES, SENATORS, and others.

SATURNINUS

What, hath the firmament more suns than one?

LUCIUS

What boots it thee to call thyself a sun?

MARCUS ANDRONICUS

Rome’s emperor, and nephew, break the parle;
These quarrels must be quietly debated.
The feast is ready, which the careful Titus
Hath ordain’d to an honourable end,
For peace, for love, for league, and good to Rome:
Please you, therefore, draw nigh, and take your places.

Written in an age where sexual intercourse and sodomy were called by their definitive names as listed in dictionaries: Titus Andronicus defended Rome against the Goths and Moors, returning from those wars to place Saturninus on Rome’s throne. Titus’s daughter already engaged to another, refused Saturninus’ offer of marriage. Captured, in the wars to defend Rome, Titus had returned with the Goth Queen Tamora and her two sons, Demetrius and Chiron.
With his marriage offer rejected by Titus Andronicus’s Family, the emperor married the beautiful Tamora instead and sought revenge upon the House of Andronicus. Tamora had sex with the Moor Aaron while plotting the destruction of Rome. Tamora’s sons, Demetrius and Chiron, raped Titus’ daughter Lavinia, then cut off her hands and took out her tongue. Those two sons of Tamora then murdered Martius and Quintus. Titus, having now discovered the truth is about to settle things.
Long story short the emperor married a whore, the whore had sex with other men,the whore got pregnant and her secret eventually got out. The emperor put his empire in jeopardy by pitting Brothers against Brothers, by marrying a whore who had sex with other men.