Nikonian

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress....phmt-argument/

I won't teardown the whole article but I'll hit on a few points...

"When this happens, it becomes disruptive of the discussion that’s trying to happen, and has the effect (intended or otherwise) of silencing women’s voices on important issues such as rape and reproductive rights"

In what way?


The thing is, a feminist space — unless the topic is specifically men’s issues — is not the place to have that discussion and neither are spaces (feminist or otherwise) in which the topic is specifically focused on women’s issues.

Obviously feminism is for women only (and a specific type I may add). It is good to discuss womens issues with the hope of finding a solution. The problem lies in the narrow feminist perspective... Btw what are guys supposed to do?

What it boils down to is this: Men, not women, need to be the ones creating the spaces to discuss men’s issues.There are a lot of feminist allies who do this, in fact, and there also a lot of non-feminist (or anti-feminist, if you really want to go there) spaces that are welcoming to this kind of discussion.

Thank you! And guess what? We do, and you hate us for it because "men (or non feminist women) getting together want to put us back in the stone age"...

Thus, the appropriate response to a thread about women is not to post a comment on it about men, but rather to find (or make) a discussion about men.

You can't on any feminist site I know unless you act like David Furtelle (who probably has never been a true victim of etc) We here generally will not ignore a women's rights issue if it has legitimacy behind it.


I have seen multiple threads on women’s issues — especially ones that are trying to talk about the impact of rape and other sexual violence against women — devolve into nothing more than justifying to MRA’s, trolls, and other (generally male) posters why the conversation should be allowed to remain about women’s experiences.

Men often get involved because you ask them too. By blaming them and stating that X is a women's only issue men do feel the need to defend themselves. Also many of us see assumptions about us in feminist articles and we want to clarify that those are false or stereotypical. You don't want us to complain then don't assume that our lives are easy...

Will discussing a male perspective/experience add something, or will it be seen as disruptive? Is there a more appropriate place to discuss my issues?

Yes, if you are the one being blamed for it you have the right to retort...


Understand that if lots of women say something is important, it is. Your opinion, as a man, about the extent and nature of the problem is not valuable when the specific problem pertains to women’s experience.

The are very few problems in this world which aren't shared by all type of humans. That is your main problem there. Feminists often are gynocentric if not much more narrow in their assumptions of a human problem...

Always consider the distinction between a class and individual members of a class. If you don’t care about this, and when conversations about class-based oppression you come up with examples of weaker members of the dominant class and more powerful members of the subordinate class, you look an awful lot like someone who doesn’t care about justice

You feminists fail to see the problem in its' entirety. Our current society is not made up of gender classes. You assume that. Abused men are not the weaker members of a dominate class. We all are individuals. Some of us are oppressed by other individuals some by groups, but all of us are different.

On the second note, one who doesn't care about justice isn't open to discussion but assumes something and attacks it. That is true oppression.

When you tell us about the male perspective on the issue (“Men don’t intend it this way!” “Men feel weak in relation to women!”) consider that we already understand.

No, you don't understand and your feminist ego is so big you may never will! Do you maybe understand because you are possibly... privileged?

We explain ourselves because you don't understand. In addition, your hypocrisy is growing, because you expect us to listen to your perspective and experience (and never assume what it is as it is our "male egos") yet fail to do likewise because you "already know"...

And then consider that the reason it looks to you like the male perspective is being excluded or misunderstood is that we’re actually talking about ourselves, and the effect your actions have on us. Further, you function as part of a larger system, and your introspection about ...

http://melancholicfeminista.blogspot...checklist.html

I found a link to this list on a fe-man-ist blog (hint it is a blog for manginas)

Just for the fun of this I will address this list...

The Male Privilege Checklist1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

No! in fact I have been turned down due to female applicants. It took me 3 years to even get a decent job...


2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true. (More).

True but for a different reason. I can be confident because I worked so damm hard to get the job...


3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.

Is this a question? And yes most likely it will be because of my sex as I am a good employee.


4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.

Umm actually I can. I been told I am stupid and useless countless of times because I am a male...


5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are. (More).

Possible, but I have been sexually harassed several times before on a job


6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

On the contrary, people either don't notice or demand that I work harder in a job for doing the same thing as a woman.


7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

I like how you added the prison remark. True my odds of being raped are lower, but the odds that I will be murdered are much much higher. In addition I know around an equal amount of female and male rape survivors...


8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.

Hell yes I was!


9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

Oh yes it will. You are not considered a "man" by modern standards unless you are married/settled down w/ kids and have a well paying job. If you dont have that you are ill-responsible, relationship avoided, big baby etc. Is this a question from the 1950's?


10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

If your friends wont the government sure will...


11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. (More).

When has a guy ever been excessively been praised for raising kids? Look at any tv commercial and Mom is the one who is always right...


12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.

True. However many will criticize me for being ill responsible if i don't invest all of the money earned into the children and wife whereas a mother can spend flamboyantly with no social concequence


13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

This doesn't apply to men or women


14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.

I'm not foolish enough to vote for somebody merely due to their gender.


15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see “the person in charge,” I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

On the contrary. Almost all of the supervisors I have worked under were female and often their bosses or the owner is female too. I have no expectations however any noticeable stupidity will generate a bias from me, male or female.


16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. (More).

No, I was just forced into doing the hard work as opposed to my sisters who weren't required to do anything....


17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.

I was homeschooled and had little media growing up...


18. As a child, ...

“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.o...ly-misleading/

Whaddyou know. Anybody have more energy than me to elaborate on this again?