I'm noticing that a few people are debating the merits of electing "captains." Captains of what, exactly? You don't have captains without soldiers under their command. The very use of military terms implies a hierarchy in which each participant obeys the orders of someone higher up.

I would like to take a poll of just how many of us would be willing to take orders. Would you be willing to be part of a team that wrote letters? Called lawmakers? Distributed fliers? Called in to radio shows? Raised money?

If you would, then you are a soldier. Only the most committed soldiers should be considered leaders, and only the most capable and dedicated leaders should be called "captains." So please take the attached poll, and tell the community just how much of a soldier you are willing to be.

To the first part of your post, John, I would say that I read your blog thoroughly and am encouraged by the wisdom of your words. Please read Percy's Avil 2 as thoroughly and you would see the answer there.

Sure, some don't like 'hierarchy', but every organisation (of people) created by men - that have worked and performed well and succeeded - has hierarchy. Leaders lead by having an authority, either assumed, taken or conferred on them - by their followers.

I said:

I do not pretend to know just what will and what won't work in the MRM. We all have to learn. Trial & error.

Don't like 'Captain'? Find another word that you do like.

Suggest away.

I have done ALL of these things. And been on TV. I am willing to be directed in aid of other's efforts too.

I agree in part. I suggested a vote on those who others considered to have shown capacity as leaders. It is just one way. I called for people to suggest the names of those that they admired or considered able. Few have even bothered to do that. In retrospect it is hardly surprising after the few that did make suggestions were treated. The rest just 'bottled'.

If I dared to suggest you as such a leader I am now pretty sure I would get a box around the ears and some comment that I was deliberately disrespecting someone else. Stupid, isn't it.

There are many here quite able. Many with the capacity. To my mind they don't have to be 'stars'. Just willing to try in the first instance. But we have far too many friggin' weasels.

So far only Luke has stepped forward. He is demonstrating just the leadership that is needed.

Maybe that is the way to go. Encourage people to step up and then give them masses of support.

How many here have supported Luke so far?

I chose "the lone ranger"....because I don't see myself as soldier or a captain, but someone who is most compelled to be more of a healer than a fighter. I am motivated to help further men's issues, bring them to the awareness of the public (and particularly to women who don't have this awareness)- so that I can help bring outside support from women to men's concerns. I'm a believer that this can and must happen. And I plan to do this advocacy most efficiently when I am finally working in the field (mental health). In the meantime, I am willing to be a learner, an observer, a questioner, and a seeker. I am also willing to be a listener, a critical thinker. I know that men are suffering. At this point in time, I see myself not as a leader, not as a soldier, but more of a nurse. Until I have the skills, the knowledge, the wisdom, and the opportunity to feel confident in political activism, I dare not become politically involved. I don't want to leap before I look, I want to be armed before I attack, with truth, with courage, with confidence.

TERA, even nurses are organised in hierarchies. They serve in Armies. They have leaders too. They ARE troops.

Yes, you do listen and question and yes you are in 'preparatory' mode.

But I see you are on Luke's team too. Well done. Did you sign the petition? have you alerted others to it?

There is an important role for women on boards like this. They can and do heal many of the superficial wounds that men suffer, with their supportive, understanding attitude. And they can do more too.

YOUR voice as a woman in emails and articles in support of men's rights - which in the main are the same equal rights for everyone - can add to the volume and quality of any action determined by any leader of activity that steps forward.

So why wait? Why hang back? Pick up a bed pan and start banging it.

Personally, I think this is silly. So 5 people from this site are on a specialised project. That is normal teamwork for the whole.

Corporations do this all the time.

RADAR is a specialised project. That brings forward people form all sorts of teams to make something in particular happen.

Percy, maybe it is the name "captain" that is confusing people.

Percy,

I am active in my own ways. Yes I've signed Luke's petition even though I disagreed with one part of it. I also became a member of CAFC and did make my voice heard when it came to fighting to get the Ohio man freed from prison (you remember the story?) I do things that I am compelled to do....but I am not going to take orders until I am sure I agree with the orders I'm given. I already signed my name to something I didn't fully agree with, now I'm wrestling with my conscience over that. There are things I can do, and things I cannot. I can use the knowledge that I have, and the skills that I have in ways that can benefit men. And I do this on a daily basis. It may not be mountains I'm moving...you won't hear my name on the radio or on TV, but I'm not inactive. I'm not a leader or a follower unless I believe fully that I have what it takes to fill the role effectively and successfully. When it comes the MRA movement, I'm proceeding with what I can do, and learning along the way.

Who knows what the future holds.

As I said to JD, Jools, and anyone else who cares to read:

I only used a military term because it generally resonates with men.

Maybe I could have used 'Centurian'.

How about "He/she who get's off their arse'

The Nuremberg Trials support your view TERA. Has thare been any suggestion from me otherwise?

I can't see anyone supporting or following the lead of someone who has run a tatty flag up the pole.

A good leader of a group like this says "This is what I want. Now, how do we do it".

If people don't like what is proposed, they will say so and not do it. If they like it they will devise and follow a plan.

It ain't that friggin' hard to grasp.

Percy, how about not defending yourself on this. Because you do not need to. And there is no need to put down others as not good enough.

You chose those 5 for your personal reasons. Your choice because it is your project. I think they are perfect for what you are looking to achieve.

I am interested in a different project. And I have chosen my leaders on the grounds of what I find important to work with.

4F and John and anyone else, can make another project. Yet, I can't understand Tyrael being upset. He is himself a part of yet another project and probably more than 1.

It is like you said Percy, there are many parts of feminism.

If I may give an idea, I would put forward a name for the project instead of a name for the participants.

Percy,

I sense a bit of anger from you....I was not attacking you or your beliefs in any way. Just stating my own, that is all.

Recently (just this week, in fact) in my Group Counseling class, I led/facilitated a therapy (support group) for the very first time. It was an anger-management group. My counseling skills were being evaluated not only by my instructor but the head program advisor, and a mental health agency director from our community. On top of that, our group was observed by other college students. I was scared...nervous, to tell you the truth. It was my first time leading a group like this. I thought I didn't have the skills to do it. And I expected a lot of criticism when it was over...and was shocked, really, to receive great reviews of my counseling skills. I had no confidence going into this...I had the skills and the knowledge but not much courage or practice. What I found out along the way is that I could do it. I was actually offered a job by the mental health agency director that observed.

The point of this is, I still have a lot to learn. But I am more hopeful and more confident. But there are areas that I am knowledgeable in, and areas I have skills in, and those that I do not. What I can do for men may not be the same things someone else can do. But like I said before, I am willing to do what I can, and willing to keep an open mind and willing to learn, to observe, and to expand on my own awareness so that someday, somehow, I can make a larger contribution to a worthy cause. I see men's issues as worthy causes.