Thread: What is stopping the mens movement from making significant gains?

Nobodys listening everybodies lives are so full of their own crap they can't be sold on ours!

Aside from the obvious things, such as feminists and a government that enables them, not to mention biased laws and stereotypes to boot....

Just the other day I showed my best buddie the video Charlie Sheen made requesting an audience with precedent O'bama about the 911 hoax, as well as a video on our public education system that I think is on another post on this site as a matter of fact.

Seeing as how he has a 7yr old daughter I originally thought he would be interested in it, but I was wrong.

And its not just him a lot of guys are in the same situation he is, he simply feels stuck, and has felt this same way for his adult life since Ive known him.

First what he had to say was simplistic but kind of true, "I'm just a voice in a crowd dude and so are you" then he said "the giving a fuck is done for me"...

Now you have to know him to understand that, what he is saying is that he works 14-16hrs a day as a truck driver, unloading his trucks by hand mind you that typically weight in around 35,000-42,000lbs, just to bring home enough money so his wife will stay off of his ass...he is literally working himself into an early grave just so he can go home and sit by himself in his basement away from his wife, and the second he wants to come to see me or any other friend it turns into an hour long arbitration on "how he needs to spend more time with his family" or in other words "i dont care how much you work, do what I say or i will divorce you and take you for everything I can"...he already spends almost every free moment he has with his daughter, and he'd probably spend more time with her if she wasn't such a bitch!

To sum it up he feels defeated.He sees no way out from it, and hes got to many of his own problems to get involved in ANYTHING...Simply put he doesn't care about ANYTHING anymore, he is to tired.

Thats one thing I think is putting the MRM in a place where its hard to move forward....A lot of men are simply to tired to try, or dont have time and they feel there is "no point" in trying!

With that I think a good amount of guys fall either in that category, or they think they are doing the "manly" thing by "not doing or saying anything", once again maintaining a "defeatist" attitude toward the situation at hand.....

So how do you motivate people when they dont care? How do you get someone to stand up for himself when he doesn't want to do anything except "crawl in a hole and die"? And when they honestly feel its a lost cause?

Quote from Billy

Woman and manginas, Neither care about men.

the biggest problem-MEN don't care about MEN-its every man for himself and screw the rest

Quote from outdoors

the biggest problem-MEN don't care about MEN-its every man for himself and screw the rest

So true, but are we ready to consider why – without pride or shame; or shall we continue banging our heads so we won’t get embarrassed at the discrepancy between our aspirations and our capabilities?

I would like to post my understanding of the problems we face, and our shortcomings which renders us so ineffective in addressing these problems. When I saw this string; I was moved to express my perspective. I’m just not up to it today and I certainly don’t want to rant it out and be idiotic about it. I don’t know when I will get it together about this, if at all.

But I do feel it is down to our inability to regard our shortcomings without the corruptive influence of pride and shame. Powerful sentiments which lead us to rationalise away any recognition of why we can and can’t, perform certain tasks. It’s all quite soul shattering to me and I want to leave out writing more now. I’m simply not up to thinking, compiling and presenting my understanding effectively today.

If we don’t recognise and effectively address what’s holding us back, then who knows...

I have enough personal short comings to address myself, and I don’t feel I’m progressing over them these days. But if I can, then I’ll post something more helpful here.

I have thought about this alot because it is obvious that we are not getting enough traction.
First of all I think, and some of the older guys can tell me if I am wrong or not, that it has only been a recent phenomenon that networks of men have been able to get in touch with each other, share their experiences and talk about their problems. The internet has made this possible. Supprisingly, or perhaps not suprizingly at all, men all over the western world have a very similar set of problems and obsticles in their lives that make them vulnerable to all kinds of injustice.
Second of all, and this is perhaps the bigest obstical, it is virtualy impossible to get a male point of view across in the main stream media. When I say main stream I mean all of the major news outlets, entertainment, and public forms of media broadcasting. This still includes most of the internet but more and more people are using the internet with its lack of regulation to both send and recieve information and news that they wouldn't get any other way.
Now I know what everyone reading this is going to say: "It's those god damned feminatzis who have shanghaied the media and they won't let anybody else talk about issues that don't have anything to do with them and them alone!" This is in large part true, but is somewhat of an oversimplified explanation of the problem with the media. Here is the real deal: women control nearly 80% of the purchasing decisions in our consumer economy. That is a lot! All mainstream media are funded by ad space/time so they have to be economical in what groups to target their sponsor’s product too. That means that the news, entertainment, and social/political commentary in the mainstream media are almost entirely gynocentric, though not necessarily feminist. The only exception to this is sports coverage and a few things like the History Channel.
Thirdly: We are POOR! And the typical MRA doesn’t have a whole lot of time on his/her hands. There is parity between purchasing decisions and wealth, women control nearly 80% of the wealth in the U.S.A and the same is pretty much true in other western countries. Men work harder and longer and make more money but what do they do with it? They give it to women or it is taken away from them when they divorce a woman. It's true! Men need to get a handle on this and stop it. If we are too busy taking care of others needs who is going to take care of ours? Nobody!
Finally there is a sociological phenomenon that I think is especially prevalent in the western or English speaking world. And that is that whenever a woman talks about her needs, desires, and rights she is thought of as a heroin that is taking control of her life-a strong woman flourishing in spite of the presence of thwarting males everywhere. If a man or group of men stands up and asks for so much as even a little consideration they are thought of as losers and looked down upon. This is all part of how our society objectifies males as tools to get it’s needs met. What would you do if you were using a screwdriver and the thing jumped out of your hands and said: "Hey, I really wish that you would use me for screws that are more my size it gets a little uncomfortable you know". You would throw the thing out wouldn't you? Who needs to hear that from a screwdriver? That is how much of society reacts to men talking about their legitimate problems. Worse yet whenever you have a group of men who collectively say that they are sick and tired of carrying an unfair burden on their shoulders and try to do something about it they strike inordinate fear in the hearts of the rest of society, namingly women and the few men in charge. I can’t help but notice in very recent times that the MRM has at first been framed as a bunch of laughable stooges to something "very dangerous" almost overnight. It is only because our numbers are growing and for no other reason.
As to the solutions for these problems, I think that may have to take a whole other string.

Second of all, and this is perhaps the bigest obstical, it is virtualy impossible to get a male point of view across in the main stream media. When I say main stream I mean all of the major news outlets, entertainment, and public forms of media broadcasting. This still includes most of the internet but more and more people are using the internet with its lack of regulation to both send and recieve information and news that they wouldn't get any other way. (Rohara)

It is like treading treacle and seems nobody gives a flying fig we had just become sperm doners ( although scientists say even that is not nessesary now) and walking ATM machines that set out to abuse everone and everything!

By the way Ro' do we get any feed back from Nassau court? just wondering

My thoughts (here goes....sigh):

We need to protect our reputation...actually, we need to create a good one because we don't even have that. To me, part of that means giving the boot to, or loudly disagreeing with, people who claim to be MRA's but make MRA's look psychos. In other words, if we can't educate those that would be part of the movement on how best to represent it, then maybe it's worth it to disassociate with those who taint the MRA image. Putting our issues in the Sun = fail. Seriously. How do you expect anyone to take the movement seriously if it's advertised in a newspaper that typically features a front cover with a stupid topic (painted as supposed truth) like a three-headed alien ape born to a human male? I mean c'mon folks..if we want respect, we've got to earn it...and be wise about how we go about it! Otherwise, we're just asking for the public to dismiss us as crazies.

Just my two cents....for what it's worth.

Oh and this, I imagine, will be really popular:

I think it's a mistake to label all of feminism as the enemy even if it's your undying belief. Fighting specific things that make specific sense...yes...but to say the whole thing is bad ...well, it's not likely to get a big reception from anyone except other MRA's....which is great, if you want to keep things small. If you want to attract larger numbers, fight against specific things and not a large generally accepted concept. It's easier that way. After a few major wins with specifics, it'll get easier for people to see and accept the problem with the larger concept...(feminism).

Quote from Daveyone

By the way Ro' do we get any feed back from Nassau court? just wondering

This is a post from a thread under False Accusations that I wrote today:

The whole political thing is an interesting angle for getting things done. I think that taking an issue to a DA’s political opponent can be effective, especially if it’s during an election year. Because seriously, this Rice woman doesn’t give a shit about this girl, she just wants to keep her job. If she can do that by getting up in front of the cameras and saying that this girl needs “serious help” or if she can do it by bowing to political pressure from the public who just might put the other guy in there it doesn’t matter.
Something to think about

The fact that they are going to press charges is a clue to how much email and calls they have been getting. Everyone you talk to is realy mad about the whole thing and very sympathetic to these five guys.

I disagree that the movement is not going anywhere,what do we expect,the femenists and the state to turn around and say,well we are treating Men badly,sorry,we will repair this now.
We are the new slave's,we work and feed the state,we are the sent to kill other men in other nation's to make them slaves.
If we do not free ourselves and educate other's the cycle will continue,a few day's ago,a young chap came on this site,he had made the mistake of trusting a female when it came to contraception,when he only wanted a sexual relationship she wanted a baby and a sucker to pay her money,so she get's her way,the boy comes here asking for advice and one of our MRA "well respected" gave him a dressing down and a lesson on moral's,so one more boy is added to the list of slaves to be milked,i tried to get to him,but he has gone,another lost MAN.

My thoughts in response are..

Women do care about men (after themselves of course, then their kids, then their pets.. Then women in 3rd world countries.. provided that the men are nice to them..)

Manginas are of course a real problem..

Shagda's point is very valid, most men are stuck in a rut and have got themselves into a position where they need lifting out of it..

They will only get out of that rut when they see something that seems to offer an immediate great benefit..

Men like that are waiting for the messiah, or the lottery win..

They have the defeated attitude, and they have got used to living with it..

They are part of the problem, because they are supporting the enemy..

Ro makes interesting comments.

The pub used to be the place where men could get together, but thats gone now as a male retreat..

The internet is more of a problem than a solution or help..

The internet could be used effectively for activism but has become a destraction and also a depressant..

Most mra forums are full of either destractions or depressing news..

And some MRA's feel the bizarre need to frequent feminist forums, which can be seen to do odd things to their minds..

Ro also points out that women profit from complaining and demanding, whereas men almost always LOSE from doing so..

Men interested in the movement ARE the "loser end" of the male hierachy on the whole, and they dont have much in the way of resources, financial or otherwise.. If they had, they would not be interested!! The nature of the male competitor..



Tera comes up with some interesting and in some ways valid points, but as can be expected it looks like she is promoting a "feminist friendly" MRM..

This means that, since she is female, she will be labelled a feminist of course..

Yet she is not saying anything different to what many male MRA's would say..

Which is interesting in itself..

I have always believed that the MRM is working very much in the same way that the feminists have worked.. Many of their goals actually dovetail right into feminism thinking in many ways.. Regards the "state controlfreakery" monopoly areas in particular..

But when men do the same things as women they dont get the same results.. There is a mens way and a womens way..

Any overlap is easily exploited by feminists, and also easily denied to men by them, because of the social expectation that seems hardwired for men to "give in" to womens demands, and women being much more geared towards their own gender than men are..

Senach, which MRA was lecturing the young lad?

The young lad was obviously not well educated in the ways of women, and if he thinks it is possible to "just have sex with a woman" and ignore the possible consequences then he was not educated at all throughout his school life.. Or has chosen to ignore it..

Oh, and if folk will insist on making the ridiculous claims that the mens movement is "growing" or "going somewhere" then can they please back it up with some evidence as all evidence I have ever seen is much to the contrary..

Something that can be clearly seen by analysis of mens forums and membership of MRA related organisations..

MONEY! It takes money to research write and and present editorials and videos of quality, to run websites, to get the word out in competitive markets to men and women who are busy just trying to get by...

And face it guys - announcing you are an MRA is to hang a 'Pariah' sign around your neck and let the world know you are unemployable, or at least a target in the workplace for all the Misandrists looking for a scapegoat to climb over to the top of...

And Angry Divorcees claiming to be MRAs, like those more interested in vengeance for themselves than justice for all, and who would gleefully burn down the whole house just to spite the ex.

And Panderers, who would pimp Boys and Men to homosex perverts and hatemongers for fun and profit - and to win the contest for who can be the most 'tolerant' by rolling on their backs and peeing themselves in shame for being born with a penis - because there is a Lot of Money and Promotions to gained by such behavior...

And the "sheepdog" syndrome - where anyone who stands up to Radical Gender Feminists (Is this specific enough for you Tera - the term of art coming as it does from Christina Sommers book "Who Stole Feminism"?) is automatically characterized as a wolf attacking All Women and everyone reflexively leaps to protect like a sheepdog...

If Men had the resources for Specific programs for Men and Boys - Run by those who believe in Men's Civil Rights, and safe from attack by the radical gender feminist / homosex / leftist power structure - perhaps something more might be done.

Not that Something isn't being done by Many Good Men and Good Women, just that it is a tremendous uphill climb against a vicious entrenched enemy who Own the Bought and Paid for 'free press' - one that has personally cost me several careers and consumed whatever resources I have been able to muster along the way. Not that it stops me, but certainly makes everything take longer and more difficult.

More than anything else - Men need to openly and transparently discuss our common issues - and more importantly IMNPHO - Our Differences. As I have pointed out before, subjects like the Radical Homosex attack on Boys and the Boy Scouts are where the Debate Must be Opened UP...

As this is a Big Issue for Most Men who care about their sex - and yet one which is constantly being avoided for fear of offending the types of Mau Mau artistes who want to hijack the Men's Movement and turn it in to a SCUM (society for cutting up men - Valerie Solanas manifesto) 'Turd Session'.

I see No Possibility for a Men's Movement that fails to Honestly and Openly take on the subjects of Dyke Misandry such as is displayed in the annual "Dyke Marches"- Or which turns a blind eye to pandering to the coprophile cult of homo-anal perversions...

- because Men will see it for the hollow and cowardly fraud such a circus of denial would be.

Denial - more than just a river in Egypt.

Ohso
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Quote from TERA

Ohso,

Some valid points you make...I'm not touching the hole homosexuality issue but I would like to ask: what do you think should be done regarding what you've identified as the "sheepdog syndrome"? Regardless of what it's called, it is a very real phenomena, and it does seem (my opinion) to spring forth from what you mentioned above it. So how is a MRA to address or quash that? It's going to come up again and again...

And Haahoo...I'd settle for "female friendly"...not asking you be a buddy to a feminist. Too many MRA's are just biased toward women ...yes, biased...for whatever their reasons. It's rare to see a self-proclaimed MRA with a balanced, unbiased perspective.

what are u doin here?

feministing...com,is that a way!!!!

Quote from outdoors

what are u doin here?

feministing...com,is that a way!!!!

not interested