I forget her name, but they had that woman who killed her kids, bashed one's head in with rocks, drowned another in the bathtub...

I think I found her Sister.

Yeah, another tragic schizophrenic paranoid headcase who didn't get drugs in a timely manner but who was abandoned by everyone with her kids to manage because 'she did well' and because she didn't seem as seriously ill as she really was. Most of the time the doctors get away with trusting things not to blow up but potter along, and sometimes, they don't and that is the result. There are thousands of women like her out there.

In a way, you can also imagine the conundrum -- yes she is not very well, but will you sign the kids over to social workers who put them in homes where 98% of the kids turn into prostitutes and criminals? So far the kids were from a nearly normal family, but ones you mix them with the real broken cases, bringing them back into this kind setting is even harder. So, chances are that the doctors hoped that mom would somehow manage, and it looked like it, but that lady was one of the few that do blow up, it's a number's game, there is no way of telling which way this lottery goes. The social services in Germany are viewed like the last resort, and you would not be far wrong when you say that killing your kids is preferable to letting those professional perverts get hold of your kids either -- once they are in the system, they are easy targets for trafficking pimps. As always, kids without parents are anyone's slaves for the taking, they don't have normal human rights and no-one will bother protecting them any further than the law compels them too (not very far at all).

She actually killed the kids to protect them from some imagined imminent evil, and she didn't get jailed but sentenced to an indefinite stay in the loony bin. In fact, to this day she is not aware of what she actually did and they won't try to tell her either because it would make the situation worse that is already is.

Not good, but it is not a feminist issue, the lady is simply very ill and won't recover in the foreseeable future. Mental illness is a brutal thing, but I would really nor chalk it down to feminism, this was a traditional stay-at-home mom.

As for eastern Germany having many women who view infanticide as the last line of contraceptive, well, this is the kind of stuff that communism does to people, it stunts their humanity. The males are not so blameless either btw, most of the fathers involved well knew what was going doing -- you cannot tell me that a male will miss serial pregnancies of his wife. But we're not allowed to talk about it, because, if you're conservative and mention this problem the socialist paradise left us as a legacy, you get shouted down as a Nazi. And no-one likes to be a Nazi, and so, the one CDU politican who decided to talk about this problem in particular and to question why it keeps happening in the East Germany it, gave up on the idea because is became untenable to continue. Isn't political correctness great? It solves all problems by making them go away magically!

File under 'oh tempora, oh mores'...

She was contributing to the destruction of the patriarchy.
No jail time but a lifetime shrink to check in with now and then. I suppose she can still go shopping. All is well.


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"The killings shocked Germans, especially because they came amid a spate of infanticides, tragic incidents that have raised worries about the level of support given to mothers, especially in eastern Germany where many of the cases have occurred."

Yes, let's get our priorities right here. It's not about saving the lives of children. Hell, most of them are only boys anyway. No, the priority is to give more "support" to mothers.

And what do you think they think this support should consist of? My money is on a huge swathe of social workers, well trained at vast public expense in the familiar "man bad, woman good" ideology, who will hold these women's hands and assure them that none of their problems are their fault...

Been to Germany before? I would like to have some more information on the red part (as I have heard none of this before).

I wonder if we'd know the full name if it was a father that had done this?

You can look the statistics up, if you can speak German, or why not check the British 'achievements' instead?

Social services in Germany are no different to the mischpoke here in the UK, the majority of the kids they process end up broken and dangerous. Take a look at the numbers that turn to prostitution, drugs and crime.

If you speak German, you cannot have missed the amount of East German women who have serial pregnancies and then proceed to fill their freezer or flowerpots with baby corpses, under the watchful eyes of their husband and their community who all then claim to have 'not noticed a thing!' whilst this was going on for a decade or thereabouts. (...)

See here for a starting point: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...537455,00.html and also here: http://www.welt.de/politik/article17...ord_These.html

But again, this is a special problem and not a feminist issue as such, just like the poor lady who flipped in the end, those girls have mental issues that arise because of the peculiar way that the oppressive communism in the East of Germany scared society and people.

I don't think that infanticide by crazy women really is a feminist topic, or a sign of any gender issues, it's a mental health issue that hits women in a particular way -- add to that the way society hates stay-at-home moms and views them as 'lazy' and 'undeserving' and you have a recipe for what we've witnessed.

In fact, I'm a bit surprised to find an attack on a married housewife with 5 kids on this site -- none of you have considered that one of the reasons she got treated like she is a no-one and left to fester with this mental illness that eventually blew up in everyone's face is that she is not an at-work feminist but dared to be a mother and a wife.

Ick sprecke a bit Deutsch....and tried to look up some statistics up and I couldn´t find one that suggest that social workers put kids into homes where 98% of the kids turn into prostitutes and criminals. But please show me where you found that number. And I don´t think you can compare English social service to German social service but I doubt that an English statistic has a number that high. I found a "Referat" though that has some interesting numbers in it. The result was that care-families had a positiv effect on the lives of the children (only 7% wanted to leave the new family). There is also a part about the lives of the kids when they are finally adults. There were no numbers on prostitution but some on crimes (32% were convicted of a crime, 13% had drug/alcohol problems) according to that source those problems were caused by abuse in the birth-families ( Resultate wissenschaftlicher Untersuchungen - Folgerungen für Pflegefamilien ). But please enlight me with your shocking study.....

Okay the argumentation was: 18 years ago in the DDR women were allowed to abort till week 12 so they think its okay to kill them after birth. Am I the only one who sees flaws in this argumentation?

And many women in East Germany are the 66-75 cases that happen there a year? Are we exaggerating a bit?

[quote=Nepenthes;95206]But again, this is a special problem and not a feminist issue as such, just like the poor lady who flipped in the end, those girls have mental issues that arise because of the peculiar way that the oppressive communism in the East of Germany scared society and people. [quote]

Okay. The lady above lives in NORTH-Germany not in EAST-Germany. She has therefore never lived in the DDR. And even if she lived there I doubt that 18 years after the fall of the walls she went crazy because of that.

On the above case (a) the husband took take care of the kids and the household (b) he wanted her to go to therapy (c) she already got drugs and ambulant (she refused to go into the looney bin) therapy. So your assumptions are totally irrelevant on this case.

What I wonder about everytime we hear about such a tragedy it is always not the mothers fault (because she is crazy) but the husbands (he must have noticed / why didn´t he prevent it). Don´t you think it becomes a gender issue when almost all offenders are female? It sure would be a gender issue if most offenders were male.

Source for the above ( Darry: Mutter muss in Psychiatrie )

Someone who is allowed to edit please add the / on one of my quotes. Thank you

Usually people that get accussed of sth are not named here. But I guess if they go to prison (she went to the looney bin) they get named. (I am not 100% sure if that is true)