Aye, it's abuse. Abuse of the system. Abuse of the mentality of your brother. It'd be in your brother's best interest to leave this woman. She sounds like the lying deceitful type that can be no good to anyone.

If she's quick to lie about something as silly as using one's car, then I can't see it being far from lying to get the upper hand in a domestic violence, false rape, child abuse, etc.

Women like this give good women a bad rap. I despise them.

Quote from Bmiricle

Aye, it's abuse. Abuse of the system. Abuse of the mentality of your brother. It'd be in your brother's best interest to leave this woman. She sounds like the lying deceitful type that can be no good to anyone.

If she's quick to lie about something as silly as using one's car, then I can't see it being far from lying to get the upper hand in a domestic violence, false rape, child abuse, etc.

Women like this give good women a bad rap. I despise them.

I agree with all theabove. It's abusive. The kids are suffering too, as well as learning how to abuse.

I totally agree with Bmiricle on this. She's abusing him and the prognosis from what you have related is not good.

I guess he loves her; I guess he doesn't want to hurt the children by breaking up the family but chances are it's going to happen. Maybe therapy will work but NOT marriage counselling or anything: it's her that needs the therapy. I don't hold much hope, personally.

If they've been together less than five years, I really suggest getting separated. I would also suggest that he records what is going on. He probably doesn't think he's being abused (yet) but you might convince him that it's a good defence in case she does call the police, even if he doesn't realise that he might want it to get her out if things get worse.

By the way, you might want to do your brother a favour and record what you hear. Look into the Skype add-on 'Pamela Recorder.'

If they've been together longer than five years then he's already as good as married as far as being screwed like a male: time to go see a solicitor before she does. Being emotionally on the back-foot (which I guess he will be) is bad enough but at least he can get the chronological advantage. You are likely to have a tough time convincing him of the need but you might suggest that seeing a solicitor about how he stands over his legal obligations to things he pays for (such as her car).

quick update...

When he got to my house last night he told me that she had actually hit him in the eye before he left. He's here now (and got to work) with all of his things and has promised me that he won't go back. He is worried about going to the police and telling them about the assault for several reasons, he tells me. Firstly he doesn't want his children to have to witness their mother being dragged away by the police (I wish she shared this noble sentiment), secondly he thinks the police won't believe him, thirdly because he believes that if he did; she would then make some sort of false allegation against him to render her actions as self defense and instigate a criminal investigation of him, and lastly because he doesn't want to risk losing access to his children (who he absolutely adores). I can't really blame him tbh...

The best of all, and to my discredit and shame, if I were her position I would probably do the same... she would get out of a criminal investigation and get back at the person who had the downright temerity to call the police on HER, and at the same time ensure the custody of the children, and a share of whatever he earns for the next 18 years, while everyone asks her if she's ok now the big bad wolf has gone; she'd be daft not to say that wouldn't she? It's a great shame we live in a society that allows such behaviour. Not just that but her and her friends all seem to think that this is totally acceptable, and even condone and praise her for it... 'you go girl!'

I see this kind of relationship all too often nowadays... *sigh*

pamela recorder

I didn't know about this, but I've now downloaded it; thanks.


What really gets me about what she's doing, is she knows what it would be like for him if she did something like this. I'm going through a false rape allegation at the minute, which has ripped my life and family apart. She watched him come to visit me in prison on remand every week, she has seen the devastation it has caused first hand. Despite all of this, she still throws the 'I'll call the police if you don't do what I want' card at him. It really is disturbing.

Thanks for the update. Since you've given it, you're going to get more advice.

You clearly can see what's coming for your brother. Nevertheless, given that you are in a tough spot, allow that your emotions are currently wild and try not to project what you are going through onto your brother's situation.

First and last, get him to a solicitor. Preferably not the one you are using unless you are truly convinced that is his best choice. If the solicitor disagrees with advice I give here, he needs to enquire about it, with a view to taking the solicitor's advice, not mine. (I do NOT give legal advice.)

Next, about the house and where he lives.
I'm sorry but it's better if he doesn't stay long with you at all. His association with a "rapist" won't help his cause if the police are called, regardless of who calls them. I realise that you're innocent but you know just as well (if not better) than anyone that isn't how it looks from outside. "If he is to be seen to be supportive of someone who possibly raped, well, what does it say about him.."
Also, if he doesn't want to forfeit the house and children he needs to get back in there. His woman's solicitor will use his absence from the home as proof of abandonment (and guilt); social services will use his absence from the children as proof that he doesn't care about them and is not fit to be with them. Unfortunately, if he goes back and she calls the police, the CPS might consider his presence there as an indication of his guilt - but I'm coming to that.

If a woman says she's been assaulted, her word is good enough. If a man says he's been assaulted, he needs proof. From what you say, your brother already knows this. If he has physical injury that shows - never mind how minor - he should see his GP and get it looked at. (If his eye shows any injury - get to A&E this evening!) A number of minor injuries over time, with his truthful explanation of them, can assist greatly; a single major injury can be enough. If he doesn't have a small tape recorder, he should get one and keep it in a pocket at all times, ready to record. He should record EVERY instance of verbal abuse and keep recording. He should remain as calm and docile as possible - treat the situation as though she, too, had a recorder and was using it selectively to prove how nasty he is.

As far as not wanting the children to see her "dragged away" (they really do tend to be better than that), get him to do research into how often a violent partner will turn into a violent mother in the absence of the partner. It's either he takes the abuse or the children do: which does he want.

Thanks for the advice, it is very much appreciated

allow that your emotions are currently wild

Yeah I thought about this, I think that is why I posted it here - to try and get some clarity. I do see the same pattern emerging though, and I really wouldn't wish what I'm going through on anyone; least of all my brother.

he needs to get back in there

Do you really think this is a good idea? I think he is happy to be out of the house, as long as he can see his children. They aren't married and have been together for just under 5 years. He doesn't have any money in the house (it is a state provided accommodation) so he doesn't need to worry about that. He is more than happy to support his daughters financially.

I think what he wants (what would be best for everyone I guess) is for everything to be as amicable as possible. There isn't, as it stands, a police or social services issue so he wants to avoid one at all costs. I definitely agree that having a dictaphone to record when she is abusive would definitely help, if she were to involve the police or CSA or social services, courts etc. He certainly doesn't want her to be prosecuted if it can be avoided, as he worries about the effect that would have on the kids. Seeing her being dragged away was just the way I (rather dramatically :P) expressed it, he is more worried about the negative effects of a long drawn out court case. I honestly believe both him and her know that the relationship isn't ultimately going to work, and this is only the latest of a number of similar incidents.

I just hope that, because of my situation, she will see that going down the false allegation/one upmanship/court route is not the right way to go. I actually think that she can be a decent mother, it's just her attitude towards the relationship that is making them, and him suffer.

Maybe it will all be ok, I'll keep you posted.


P.S

It's either he takes the abuse or the children do: which does he want.

And some people say there is no place for sites like this, what a sorry state of affairs

Quote from Daniel Conroy

...he worries about the effect that would have on the kids.

But having them watch as he is bawled & yelled at, hit in the face and all that lot - is perfectly fine? No.. Women have demanded equality - let them have their equal responsibility. She needs to be shown that she cannot get away with abusing people, else she will soon enough turn on the children in his absence.[/QUOTE]

Get the police involved now! Let them hear his side of the story first and document it. If she isn't injured then they will likely believe him. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE KIDS!!!! First of all, three of them are not his, second of all if he just puts up with it they will think that this is how normal adults do business and it's not. Start taking agressive moves now because he will not have that oportunity later. Call up the mankind project and get advice that is what they are there for!

Where part of the uk does your brother live?

And yes that is abuse,what you describe.

I agree with Rohara. He needs to get to the police to report the battery. Making first contact is what's important. If he waits and she makes a false allegation, he's screwed. If he goes now and when the police go to investigate she says makes an allegation it will be less likely to be believed since it came at such a convenient time (when she's being investigated).

I'm in general agreement with those that say to report the abuse now, only I'd say hold back until he has at least a little proof to back it up. It's a tight call but he should not delay long, if at all.

Quote from Daniel Conroy

Do you really think [getting back in the home] is a good idea? I think he is happy to be out of the house, as long as he can see his children. They aren't married and have been together for just under 5 years. He doesn't have any money in the house (it is a state provided accommodation) so he doesn't need to worry about that. He is more than happy to support his daughters financially.

OK, the 5 year thing makes a difference and maybe, for his own financial sake, he should stay away. I'm scared for the children, though. Honestly, it's not good for them: while it is possible the violence will end with the separation, it's probable it will continue. I can't answer his morals: were it me, I'd want at least my own kids with me and maybe any others that I've lived with for over four years - but I care about kids even though I've none of my own blood.

Quote from Daniel Conroy

I think what he wants (what would be best for everyone I guess) is for everything to be as amicable as possible.

Of all the common mistakes that partners can make (and it's not a gender-specific thing) when getting out because of a partner's poor behaviour - be it unfaithfulness, overspending, abuse, or anything else - is to fool themselves that what they want matters. Most want the relationship to carry on, or be repaired .. but they don't get that. When they realise that can't get that, and get over the anger, (that's about the time the other is just moving away from saying "I just want us to remain friendly"), they often want it to be amicable - but they can't usually get that, either. She has no incentive to be amicable. She gets more by not being.

I wish it weren't that way. But if wishes were pennies I'd be a millionaire. It too rarely happens and is not likely in someone that has already shown such abusive, uncaring, unfriendly behaviour.

Quote from Daniel Conroy

There isn't, as it stands, a police or social services issue so he wants to avoid one at all costs.

He can be (I think the statistic for about 2003 is) 98.3% sure that social services and the CSA will be involved. It's not his choice. It's not even necessarily hers. It doesn't matter what they agree to now, it doesn't even matter what a court decides, the CSA is the law in this country. If wishes were pennies..

He needs a big dose of unfortunate reality.